DEPUTY DIRECTOR-GENERAL: I am afraid I have bad news for you also on this item. You will recall that the question of FAO's immunity from legal process was on the agenda of your last session. The document that you have now brings the Council up to date on developments since then. Annex I of the document contains the Resolution adopted, number 12, on the last occasion. You also have the report of the Finance Committee, of which paragraphs 3.93 to 3.98 set out the views of the Finance Committee when it considered the question last month.
As already indicated by the Chairman of the Finance Committee, the distinguished Ambassador of Italy, the Host Government, kindly attended informally the session of the Committee when it discussed the matter. As the Director-General said in his opening statement, the situation has deteriorated rather than improved since the last Session. As you will see from the document, there has been no progress since the judgement rendered by the Corte di Cassazione when it reached that judgement at the end of last year.
The Council requested the Host Government to deal with two questions. The first was to find a suitable way of resolving the specific dispute with INPDAI, the lessors of Building F, without further recourse to the Italian Courts; secondly, to take remedial action if necessary through legislative measures to ensure that our immunity from legal process was respected in future.
However, the Italian Courts have since then resumed hearings in both cases brought by the landlords against FAO. As instructed by the Council, we have not been taking part in those proceedings, but I can tell you something about what has happened in those cases which is additional to the information in paragraph 18 of the document.
In the eviction case, the Court of Appeal disregarded FAO's immunity from legal process, I presume because it was following the judgement of the Corte di Cassazione, and rendered a judgement on the merits. In fact, the Court of Appeal held that INPDAI did not have valid grounds for evicting FAO, so our position on that was justified by the Court. However, there are two problems. One is that they did consider the substance, and therefore, our immunity has suffered a further blow, and secondly, this protection from eviction lasts only for about two years.
Under the law on which they have made this decision we are in principle liable to new proceedings two years from now.
In the other case, the case for retro-active increases in rent, we have heard that the Pretore held a hearing in May, last month, and has set the case down for a final hearing in October. A judgement on the merits will be issued some time after that.
The situation is even worse than that, Mr. Chairman, because we are informed that at any time between now and when the case is finally dealt with by the Italian Courts, the landlords, the INPDAI, could ask the President of the Tribunale di Roma to order what would in effect be precautionary measures against FAO. That is to say the INPDAI could seek an order sequestrating the Organization's assets such as the funds provided by you which are deposited in banks in Italy and earning interest which contributes to miscellaneous income which eventually comes back to you in offset of your contributions, so they would be attacking not just the funds of the Organization but your money.
We believe that this would be completely contrary to section 17 of the Headquarters agreement which expressly provides that FAO's property is immune from any form of interference, whether by executive, administrative, judicial or legislative action. But we have ample evidence already that the Italian Courts are not likely to pay much attention to this immunity, not at any rate judging by the way they have treated similarly categorical wording in section 16 regarding our immunity from legal process. Therefore the Director-General strongly recommends that the Council urge the Italian authorities to bring section 17, the one I have just referred to, that provides we are immune from any form of interference as regards our property, to bring section 17 of the Headquarters agreement to the attention of the President of the Tribunale di Roma who, we understand, would be the judge to whom an order for such sequestration would be addressed, as soon as possible so as to obviate a possible violation of another provision of the Headquarters agreement concerning our immunity.
So that is the first action proposal that the Director-General recommends to the Council.
Now apart from the litigation with the lessors of Building F, I should like to draw your attention to the fact that, as shown in paragraph 18 of the document, a judgement has been rendered against FAO in one case, and two further actions have been brought against FAO of a different type, and, we see this as evidence of the detrimental consequences of the judgement of the Corte di Cassazione, and it is to be expected I am afraid that unless measures are taken there will be further cases even effecting the status of staff or representatives. It is impossible to say because what we consider to be fair and indisputable has been breached, not once but more than once, and no action has been taken so far to stop this happening. We feel therefore that it is necessary for the Council to take appropriate action such as is within its power to try and stop this deterioration.
Now in accordance with paragraph 5 of Resolution 1/82, which is an annex document, the independent chairman here today sent letters to the President, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, and the Director-General has also written more than once to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, but as you will see, these efforts have been to no avail. We have not been informed of any action taken to give effect to the Council's resolution. I hope that at this meeting the Italian delegation will be able to give the Council some reassuring news, in fact some concrete evidence that specific and expeditious measures are being taken by it to remedy this situation and to give effect to the resolution. It is only in this way that we can have the hope of being protected from a continuing deteriorating situation including an attack on your funds. In any event you will note from paragraph 23 of the document that you are invited to consider as a matter of urgency the measures and further guidance for the Director-General that would be appropriate to protect the Organization's status in Italy, and I would suggest that as you did at the last session you may wish to adopt a resolution which we would be glad to prepare indicating the measures that should be taken in the current circumstances.
M. FRANCISCI DI BASCHI (Italie): En effet, la situation actuelle est celle décrite dans les documents CL 83/4 et CL 83/23, et M. West, notre Directeur général adjoint, vient de faire une dernière mise au point de cette situation.
Je dois admettre tout à fait franchement que le Gouvernement italien s'est également préoccupé des conséquences à court terme et à long terme du jugement de la Cour de cassation (Corte di Cassazione) dans le cas d'espèce FAO/INPDAI. C'est un jugement qui a un caractère définitif et reconnaît comme point de doctrine la compétence des tribunaux italiens toutes les fois qu'un sujet de droit international tel qu'un Etat étranger ou la FAO agit dans la sphère de droit privé et non dans celle de la souveraineté et de la réalisation de fins institutionnelles. Ce jugement de la Cour de cassation, comme je l'ai dit, a des conséquences immédiates et des implications à plus long terme. Pour l'immédiat, je ne peux que répéter ce qu'a dit le Représentant italien dans le dernier Conseil, et moi-même dernièrement, lors de la session du Comité financier. Le Gouvernement italien estime que, dans la phase d'exécution des jugements de tribunaux ordinaires italiens, les immunités de l'Organisation sur la base des sections 16 et 17 de l'article 8 de l'Accord de siège sont pleinement et dûment protégées, qu'en tout cas l'application concrète de toute mesure d'exécution rentre dans la sphère du pouvoir exécutif. Ce dernier peut recourir à certaines procédures d'urgence pour faire valoir, je répète, dans la phase d'exécution, le manque de juridiction.
Donc je pense que, dans l'immédiat, je peux donner cette assurance au Conseil, au Directeur général et aux Etats Membres, c'est-à-dire que sur la base des sections 16 et 17 de l'article 8 de l'Accord de siège toute mesure d'exécution, telle que la séquestration des biens ou des comptes courants, peut être empêchée et bloquée par une intervention du pouvoir exécutif. Je ne peux pas ici décrire quels sont les moyens, mais on peut naturellement développer cette argumentation dans des conversations directes entre le Directeur général, ses collaborateurs et la délégation italienne.
A plus long terme, nous avons plusieurs options à choisir. On pourrait inclure le problème de l'immunité de juridiction dans les négociations pour l'interprétation de l'Accord de siège, on pourrait réaliser un échange de lettres entre l'Organisation et le Gouvernement italien, ratifié par le Parlement et cette ratification donnerait à cet échange de lettres la forme d'une loi nationale ou bien on pourrait modifier de façon, je dirais, unilatérale la législation italienne existante. Finalement, on pourrait aussi recourir à la section 35 de l'article 17 de l'Accord de siège, qui prévoit une procédure particulière d'arbitrage en cas de différend sur l'application de l'Accord. Toutes ces options que j'ai énumérées pourraient résoudre le problème à long terme, pas dans l'immédiat. Dans l'immédiat, je répète que la solution consiste dans l'action du pouvoir exécutif vis-à-vis de certaines mesures d'exécution qui pourraient être réalisées grâce aux jugements des tribunaux italiens.
Je pense que cette déclaration sera rassurante dans l'immédiat, même si la situation reste, je ne dirais pas "dramatique", mais difficile. Il s'agit d'une situation qu'il faut suivre de très près pour faire face à certains événements qui pourraient se produire, comme l'a dit M. West, d'un jour à l'autre. Mais je répète que la situation n'est pas tragique sur le plan de mesures d'exécution, et c'est cela qui nous intéresse pour le moment.
M. le Président, à plus long terme, je voudrais préciser un point. Dans la lettre que le Président du Conseil et notre Ministre des affaires étrangères, M. Colombo, a adressée au Directeur général, est proposée l'inclusion du problème de l'immunité de juridiction dans les négociations pour la mise à jour de l'Accord de siège. De la part du Directeur général et, je pense, avec l'appui du Comité juridique ou du Comité financier, on a manifesté l'opinion que cet argument était trop important pour être inclus dans la négociation de l'Accord de siège. Je voudrais dire aussi au Conseil et au Directeur général que sur ce point la position du Gouvernement italien n'est pas figée. Nous sommes prêts à considérer le problème de l'immunité séparément, étant donné l'importance fondamentale de ce problème pour l'Organisation, pour les Etats Membres, et, cela va sans dire, pour les autres pays aussi.
Le Parlement italien a été dissous, les élections sont très proches, un nouveau gouvernement sera formé dans les semaines qui viennent, et je veux souligner ici qu'une de ses tâches reste l'ouverture, aussitôt que possible, de négociations sur l'interprétation de l'Accord de siège, et aussi l'examen, avec le Directeur général et ses collaborateurs, de moyens et de mesures à adopter soit au niveau national, soit au niveau bilatéral, pour mieux garantir à l'Organisation, dans un contexte juridique plus clair, l'immunité de juridiction telle qu'elle est définie dans l'Accord de siège.
M. le Président, je pense en répétant à la lettre les déclarations faites par mon collègue lors du dernier Conseil avoir rassuré le Conseil sur la situation immédiate. Pour l'avenir, je répète que le Gouvernement italien est prêt à prendre toutes les mesures sur le plan national et même en collaboration avec l'Organisation, pour faire face aux implications du jugement de la Cour de cassation.
CHAIRMAN: Your have heard the distinguished Ambassador of Italy suggesting short-term measures to execute administrative action and long-term measures to give constitutional authority to the principles of the headquarters settlement. Mr. West at the beginning said that the Council would agree and you could suggest a resolution containing some specific measures. I think it might be useful for the members to listen to what kind of measures you feel that the Council would support.
DEPUTY DIRECTOR-GENERAL: If I may clarify a point: I am grateful to the Permanent Representative of our Host Government and we recognize his close attention to the matter and his goodwill. We note again the categorical but oral guarantees he has given in respect to the short-term situation.
What I am bound to point out is that this is no different, or nothing additional to what was said in the last Council by his predecessor, or what he said himself in the Finance Committee; and meanwhile the situation is deteriorating. If I brought up the question of sequestration, it was not because we thought of the worst that might happen and invented that, and tried to construct - I think the word 'tragic' was used - a tragic situation. On the contrary, we see it is a real possibility for tomorrow or the day after, literally. And I think, whilst loss of governments' money is not exactly a tragedy, it is not exactly taken lightly by auditors and by governments. So I brought it up because it is something which is a real possibility, and there might be other things on the way too.
I therefore do think that, while we note the statement - categorical repetition - concerning executive measures, we are by no means certain that such statements here will stop the courts or the offices of the courts - as distinct from the executive branch - from trying to impose new breaches in our immunity. That is why the Director-General hopes that the Council will express firm views, and why he has suggested these two particular steps that I mentioned in my opening statement. And if there are further steps of which the Council can think, so much the better. So I am very anxious now to hear what the Council has to say.
C. VIDALI CARBAJAL (México): Agradecemos mucho la explicación que nos ha dado el Sr. West y la que nos dio el Director General en la sesión de mañana sobre estos problemas que son grave preocupación para nuestra Organización. Reconocemos, por otra parte, las explicaciones y el esfuerzo que seguramente ha realizado el distinguido Embajador de Italia para aminorar y resolver los problemas que tratamos; pero consideramos que el Gobierno huésped debería considerar todos estos problemas en conjunto y darles una rápida atención que no le ha dado.
Algunos mecanismos internacionales, algunos acuerdos de tipo jurídico, algunos acuerdos de tipo interno, alguna disposición del Congreso, en fin, algo que de acuerdo con sus normas jurídicas fundamentales permita que la FAO opere con libertad y sin cortapisas burocráticas, como operan otros organismos internacionales en otros países del mundo. La bondad, la utilidad y los servicios que le ha prestado a la humanidad la FAO, harían que cualquier país del mundo se sintiera orgulloso de tener la Sede de nuestro importante organismo que, por otra parte, crea una gran cantidad de beneficios económicos y empleo para el país huésped. Es por esto que apoyamos ampliamente las medidas propuestas por el Director General, tanto las que se mencionaron en el tema 15 como las que mencionó el Sr. West sobre el tema 18. El apoyo de nuestra delegación a la Resolución que se presente a la gestión es que realice, en el futuro, la Dirección General sobre este tema.
R.C. GUPTA (India): Mr. Chairman, we commend your efforts as our Chairman and those of the Director-General in trying to find some acceptable solution to this unfortunate problem. In our understanding all organizations of the United Nations system, if they are to function effectively and to come up to the expectations of the world community, should enjoy this immunity; otherwise it is very difficult for them to function. In this context we are grateful to the Ambassador of the Host Country for assuring us that no executive action will be taken by the Host Government in pursuance of the decrees of the Court.
We in India also have a very long tradition of an independent judiciary and we accord it the highest deference to the pronouncements of the courts. The solution does not lie in stopping the execution of a decree of the court; the solution does not lie in taking executive action. The solution does lie in changing the law so as to give a clear interpretation as to the intentions of the Host Country, to give a clear understanding to the international community that the Host Government is concerned about the matter, that it is serious, that this diplomatic immunity - or the immunity of an international organization - has to be honoured at all costs. While we appreciate the assurance of the Ambassador that no executive action will be brought against our Organization, we would strongly urge that legislative measures should be taken immediately, either through an exchange of letters ratified by the Italian Parliament, or even a change of law, to assure us on a long-term basis that the immunity of FAO will be respected.
We strongly feel that this immunity is not negotiable, that this cannot be negotiated together with other clauses of the Headquarters Agreement. This is too serious a matter, too important a matter to be negotiated and we strongly urge the Council, through you Mr. Chairman, to pass a resolution requesting the Host Government to provide appropriate legislation as soon as possible so as to assure us on a long-term basis that this immunity will be respected.
T. AHMAD (Pakistan): During the previous Session of the Council, that is the Eighty-second Session, my delegation, while appreciating the efforts being made by the Host Government, very strongly urged that these matters should be resolved in such a manner that the next session of the Council, that is the present, Eighty-third Session, instead of being involved in issues such as immunity of FAO from legal process, should be able to devote its time to more pressing issues of the food and agriculture sector. I must confess that at that time while making an intervention on behalf of my delegation, I did say that perhaps I was being overly optimistic in hoping there would be something tangible coming out of the whole issue by the next Council. Therefore we view with great concern that the lapse of time has not really achieved anything substantial or tangible.
We therefore strongly urge, through you, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Council, the Host Government to really intervene on the issue on a more immediate and drastic level to ensure that FAO's legal immunity is respected by all Courts of Law and all places of jurisdiction within the State; and would be willing to participate in any resolution which the Council could come up with to speed up the issue.
C. DI MOTTOLA BALESTRA (Observador de Costa Rica): La redente intervención del Embajador de Italia lleva un poco de tranquilidad en un momento en el cual estamos realmente preocupados, y estamos realmente preocupados, porque el Documento CL 83/23 pone de relieve que la situación está empeorando cada día más, y es preocupante no solo para la FAO, cuyo funcionamiento se ve, digamos, en cierto sentido amenazado, sino porque crea todo lo que está ocurriendo un precedente peligroso para todas las Organizaciones Internacionales, que hasta ahora han podido funcionar con pleno respeto del Acuerdo.
Yo creo que en el dictamen de la Corte de Casación ha influido una cierta diferencia entre los textos ingleses y los italianos del Artículo 16; en el raccolta oficial de la Ley de 1951 resulta queen ingles se dice shall enjoy from every form of legal process. En el texto italiano se dice simplemente acuerdo de "immunità di giurisdizione". Esto puede prestarse a diferentes interpretaciones; o sea, que en ciertos casos podría no haber inmunidad de jurisdicción; pero es cierto que every form es extremadamente categórico. Yo creo que lo que se necesita con absoluta urgencia es volver al espíritu con que fue redactado el Acuerdo de Sede; o sea, que se necesitan medidas legislativas. Como puso de relieve recientemente el Delegado de India, no puede ser objeto de negociación sobre interpretación. Yo creo que técnicamente después de ese fallo de la Corte de Casación hay sólo una medida legislativa que puede reconducir la situación en lo que se quiso que fuera en el momento exacto en que se firmó el Acuerdo de Sede, en que la Organización se trasladó acá.
En lo que se refiere al pleito específico con el INPDAI yo creo que también mediante la ayuda del Gobierno italiano, cuyo Ministerio de Relaciones Exteriores demostró tan buena voluntad y comprensión, se podrían empezar negociaciones para una transacción; o sea, yo creo que se podrían dividir los asuntos. Uno, pedir al Gobierno italiano, mediante la Resolución, que está a la vista de la Secretaría, y que nos presentará usted, que se llegue a un procedimiento claro, legislativo, lo más pronto posible, y el otro, tratar de acercar las partes para ver si es posible ponerse de acuerdo sobre alguna forma de transacción.
M.D. METELITS (United States of America): The United States delegation has a great deal of sympathy for the rather difficult position that the Host Country delegation finds itself in and we appreciate their enormous efforts to be as forthcoming as possible. Likewise we appreciate your efforts, Mr. Chairman, and those of the Director-General and the secretariat management in seeking a specific and rapid solution to the problem.
In Resolution 82/1, operative paragraph 6, the Council requests the Director-General to keep the Council and the CCLM informed of developments in these areas. We find ourselves at this session of the Council in the unfortunate position of having to consider possibilities of language for a resolution that is not even before us yet. It might have been helpful if the CCLM had been consulted on this legal matter and had made its contribution before this session.
I.O. ALVARENGA (El Salvador): Pero el estudio del Director General señala que sobre el jure gestionis no hay consenso en todos los países, algunos dan la inmunidad en ese caso, otros no dan la inmunidad. En Italia nunca se ha reconocido por los tribunales la inmunidad en materia del jure gestionis y, en efecto, la Corte de Casación hace de la naturaleza del contrato de arrendamiento entre FAO y el INPDAI la columna central de su razonamiento.
Señala en la pagina 10 de la sentencia que con, cito entre comillas, con un conspicuo número de decisiones la sentencia dice:"hay un abundante número de decisiones de esta misma Corte", es decir de la Corte de Casación, "en las cuales se ha sostenido la sujeción de los organismos internacionales a la jurisdicción italiana cuando ejecutan actos privados", y cita varias sentencias. Luego demuestra
la Corte con argumentos que por desgracia no podíamos detenernos a analizar pero que yo los encuentro muy fundados, uno puede no estar de acuerdo con ellos pero no puede dejar de reconocer que son argumentos sólidos, demuestra con argumentos que el contrato entre la FAO y los propietarios del edificio "F" es un acto de naturaleza privada y que de cualquier modo que lo llamen las partes sigue siendo un contrato de naturaleza privada y, por consiguiente, dice la Corte aunque la sección 16 del Convenio lo decía claro, lo que hizo la FAO cuando contrató como un particular fue renunciar a su inmunidad y, por consiguiente, en ese caso dice la Corte "por la propia actuación de la FAO la inmunidad no se aplica".
Hay dos cosas que me parecen dignas de hacer constar a propósito de esto: ¿Por que esas sentencias, abundantes según la Corte de Casación, no fueron tomadas en cuenta?. No se citan en el estudio del Director General y hay algunas sentencias que hubieran sido muy ilustrativas, por ejemplo la número 1778 del 13 de mayo de 1963, es decir dictada hace 20 años, en la cual la NATO tenía un conflicto muy parecido al de la FAO. Había contratado con una firma privada italiana la construcción de alcantarillas en una base. La NATO pretendió que éste era un acto, cuando fue demandado por la empresa constructora, que era un acto de jure imperi, y la Corte de Casación sentenció que entre los fines de la NATO no estaba la construcción de alcantarillas, que era un acto de derecho privado que podía haberlo hecho de diversas maneras y el contrato no estaba sujeta a la inmunidad.
Hay otro caso, opuesto, entre una ciudadana italiana y la Orden de los Caballeros de Malta. Esta ciudadana trabajaba en un hospital que no pertenecía a la Orden de Malta, pero trabajaba dando asistencia a los enfermos. Demandó a la Orden de Malta ante los tribunales ordinarios y la Corte de Casación sentenció que en ese caso curar a los enfermos era un fin público de la Orden de Malta y, por consiguiente, sujeto a la inmunidad de jurisdicción.
La segunda pregunta que se puede uno hacer es por qué se recurrió a la Corte de Casación entonces.
Por lo que se ha planteado por algunos que creen que habiéndose presentado a la Corte de Casación la FAO renunció a su inmunidad, no se ve por qué se presentó a la Corte de Casación cuando podía verse con anticipación cuál era el criterio de la Corte, lo que se hizo fue darle una gran ventaja a la contraparte de la FAO. Un abogado astuto, como yo los he visto actuar, en vez de presentarse a la Corte de Casación se hubiera presentado al Pretore y hubiera dilatado el juicio uno, dos, tres, diez años y mientras tanto ofrecería a la contraparte una negociación, una transacción. Eso es lo que hacen los abogados aquí. Contratiamente, se le ahorró tiempo a la contraparte porque de una sola vez se le dio el arma para llevarnos a juicio.
No es que yo esté haciendo estos recordatorios para juzgar ni para echar la culpa a nadie porque, repito, son cuestiones en las que no se puede decir quién tiene la razón, sino porque pienso que lo más importante es plantearnos qué hacer para el inmediato futuro.
A nuestro juicio, dejemos una vez más aclarada y analizada la doctrina internacional, si analizamos el derecho internacional la FAO tiene la razón de su parte, pero, desgraciadamente, ya sea en un proceso judicial como en un juego de ajedrez o en la guerra no siempre gana el que tiene la razón o el que tiene la teoría a su favor. A nuestro juicio está bien, y ratificamos, que el Director General no se presente a juicios a los cuales venga demandado, pero nos parece que el Consejo debiera
dejarle flexibilidad para que si lo estima conveniente para los intereses de la Organización en un momento determinado se presente ante un tribunal, Imaginemos que el Pretore de Roma, y saben ustedes que los Pretores en Italia tienen un poder increíble, son los jueces de nivel más bajo pero son capaces de procesar a la figura más alta, y muchas veces lo hacen sin miramiento de ninguna especie, supongamos que el Pretore de Roma decreta una medida cautelar, como se llama, contra las cuentas de la FAO, ¿qué hace la FAO esperando a que la legislación se cambie para darle la razón?. Me parece imposible tendría que actuar de alguna forma y sugiero que el Consejo autorice al Director General para que tenga flexibilidad, que se mantenga en la defensa aferrándose a la inmunidad, pero que tenga la flexibilidad para que si lo estima conveniente se presente a los Tribunales.
Ahora bien, en un proceso judicial, como en un juego de ajedrez o en la guerra la mejor defensa es el ataque, A nuestro juicio, y así lo habíamos planteado, podríamos considerar la posibilidad de demandar a Italia conforme al Convenio de Sede o en un organismo internacional. No puede la FAO seguir esperando hasta que el Gobierno italiano tome las medidas que se le pidan; es necesario actuar e inmediatamente salir al paso, y esto no implica, desde luego, ninguna, en absoluto, actitud inamistosa para un país al cual estoy seguro que nadie en esta sala le tiene tanto cariño como el que habla y ninguna delegación tiene tanto sentimiento de agradecimiento, pero se trata de defender un juicio particular y creo que valdría la pena considerar esa posibilidad.
Realmente, dado que el señor representante de Italia no nos ha explicado cuáles son las medidas, cómo piensan ellos detener la acción de un Juez, no podemos analizarlo, pero por lo menos podemos ver a la luz de las informaciones cotidianas que nosotros tememos que se puedan quedar en el plano de las buenas intenciones.
En conclusión, nuestra delegación ratifica la plena confianza en el Director General, en la forma que ha llevado este proceso. Segundo, pide que mantenga como línea la defensa de la inmunidad irrestricta sin perjuicio de que se presente en un tribunal si no implica renunciar a la inmunidad. Tercero, que se busque una transacción con la contraparte, Cuarto, que se pase al ataque, no nos quedemos esperando pasivamente: y lo anterior, sin perjuicio, desde luego, que se pida lo que se ha planteado: que el Gobierno italiano, mediante una ley o mediante otro procedimiento, interprete de manera indiscutible el Acuerdo de Sede,
Para terminar, y me temo que una de las aspiraciones que tenía era no ser excesivamente prolija, no he podido por menos que expresar algunas dudas sobre la forma y la sustancia de este problema. He pensado que era mi deber exponérselas al Consejo, no porque este en contra de la posición de la FAO, todo lo contrario, precisamente porque quisiera dar la mayor contribución a su más adecuada defensa.
Quisiéramos comenzar por advertirle que puedo ser un poco largo en mi intervención. Le pido disculpas, pero es que yo soy un abogado y aparte del cariño que le tengo a la FAO este tema me resulta particularmente importante. Por lo demás, todos sabemos que a los abogados algunos los consideran que nacieron para eso, para hablar; otros dicen que existen para enredar las cosas que están claras. Espero no incurrir ni en lo uno ni en lo otro.
Nuestra Delegación en el curso del anterior período de sesiones del Consejo intervino en este punto y sostuvo lo siguiente:
1° ) Que la letra de la Sección 16 del Acuerdo de Sede no dejaba dudas sobre la irrestricta inmunidad de jurisdicción que gozaba la FAO.
2° ) Que una autorizada doctrina internacionalista y un ejemplo de la jurisprudencia italiana confirmaban lo anterior. Por cualquier problema de interpretación quisiéramos aclarar que la palabra jurisprudencia, jurisprudencia en el sentido de case law, es decir, las sentencias pronunciadas por los tribunales italianos; y nos referíamos a un trabajo del Profesor Ricardo Monaco y una sentencia del Tribunal de Trieste que él mismo citaba.
3° ) Que la FAO no había cometido ningún error al presentarse a los tribunales.
4° ) Que el Director General debía abstenerse de comparecer a los tribunales italianos y basar su defensa en la inmunidad irrestricta de la FAO.
5° ) Que la FAO debía estudiar la posibilidad de recurrir a un Tribunal Internacional para que dirimiese esta cuestión en forma general y obligatoria, a fin de que no permaneciese como una espada pendiente sobre la cabeza de nuestra Organización.
6° ) Que era conveniente dar a conocer el texto de la sentencia de la Corte de Casación al menos a los miembros del Consejo.
Esto último de dar a conocer la sentencia, no se hizo; de modo que como la sentencia no vino a nosotros, fuimos nosotros a la sentencia. Hicimos un viaje a la Corte de Casación y a través de su magnífico sistema de informática jurídica obtuvimos tanto la sentencia que afecta a la FAO como otras
sentencias muy interesantes. Obtuvimos allí también un elenco de trabajos jurídicos sobre la inmunidad de los Organismos Internacionales. Por desgracia, no tuvimos el tiempo de buscar y estudiar estos últimos; pero no era indispensable hacerlo, porque entretanto, hemos podido leer el excelente estudio que el Director General presento al Comité de Asuntos Constitucionales y Jurídicos, en el cual se pasa revista a la mejor y más reciente doctrina en la materia.
Este último, el estudio, que reúne la seriedad y superior calidad de los documentos de la FAO, junto con la lectura de la sentencia, y la jurisprudencia de la Corte de Casación, nos ha reiterado nuestra convicción de que la FAO ha actuado correctamente. De nada se puede inculpar al Director General ni a su Oficina Jurídica. Conocemos muy bien tanto al Señor Roche como a su predecesor el Sr. Dobbert y nos consta que la competencia y honestidad profesionales de ambos, así como la de sus colaboradores, son de la más alta calidad que se puede encontrar en el mundo.
Sin embargo, hay otros aspectos sobre los cuales ahora no estaríamos tan seguros, como en la precedente sesión del Consejo. Y aclaramos que no poder pronunciarse con certeza en el campo del Derecho, es decir, no tomar posición firme en materia jurídica, es de la esencia de la materia jurídica y nadie puede en materia legislativa,en materia judicial pretender estar en posesión de la verdad absoluta.
La primera cuestión sobre la que se nos plantean dudas, es sobre la oportunidad y la justicia de haber empezado el presente asunto.
Como sabemos, su origen estuvo en la reclamación por parte de los propietarios del Edificio F de un aumento en el alquiler, con base en el índice que se había previsto en el contrato suscrito por la FAO. La FAO se negó a reconocer el aumento alegando que las cláusulas de indización habían sido prohibidas por la legislación italiana sobreviniente.
No sabemos si el reclamo era injustamente oneroso, no sabemos si lo que reclamaban los propietarios era inicuo o si se ajustaba a las cláusulas que se habían pactado libremente. En el primer caso, es decir, si lo que se reclamaba era excesivamente oneroso, se hizo bien en no pagar; en el segundo caso, si el propietario reclamaba lo que se había pactado inicialmente, se hizo mal en no pagar. Hay una cláusula que todo el mundo conoce: en materia jurídica pacta sunt servanda, los contratos deben cumplirse. La buena fe en la aplicación de los contratos es una de las normas esenciales para su aplicación y su interpretación.
Por añadidura, la FAO invoca la ley italiana para anular la cláusula de la indización; pero invoca la cláusula de arbitraje contenida en el contrato. Esta parece, según el estudio que elaboró el Director General, que no se adapta a cláusulas semejantes que en otros Convenios de Sede reclaman las legislaciones que dan la inmunidad irrestricta. Hay países que dan la inmunidad irrestricta en cualquier campo, pero exigen que los Convenios de Sede, en los contratos, se establezca un procedimiento de derecho privado para dirimir las posibles controversias. Parece ser, repito, que esa cláusula del contrato de arrendamiento no se ajusta a esos principios. Tan es así, que los Tribunales italianos dicen que esa cláusula de arbitraje prevista en el contrato de arrendamiento es nula conforme a la legislación italiana; ahora la FAO parece invocar la ley italiana para anular una cláusula y desconoce el Derecho Internacional o le niega validez a la ley italiana para hacer valer otra cláusula. Caemos en una contradicción que habrá que aclarar.
Además, habría que hacer examen de conciencia: ¿Se debía o no la suma pactada?
Parecería mala tesis hablar mal en un momento de crisis económica, cuando la FAO tiene graves problemas económicos, pero lo que nostros queremos hacer es proponer a la FAO lo que creo que cualquier abogado que estime a su cliente haría, y con mayor razón cuando se trata de dar un consejo, hacer una sugerencia a la propia familia cuando tiene un conflicto planteado. Nos planteamos que se busque una transacción, transacción que puede buscarse en la mejor forma posible; muchas veces la transacción se lleva al 50 por ciento del valor reclamado, no tiene porque ser pagado inmediatamente todo; puede pedirse una dilación para cinco o diez años, y esto me parece que es conveniente aclararlo, no está en contradicción a nuestro juicio con lo que determina el GATT, el Comité de Asuntos Constitucionales y Jurídicos ni con la Resolución precedente del Consejo.
Otras dudas que se nos plantean, que fue alrededor de las cuales que centramos nuestra intervención en el Consejo pasado, es la indiscutibilidad del texto literal de la sección 16. Tanto el estudio preparado por el Director General, como la sentencia de la Corte de Casación, señalan que es de universal aceptación una teoría que distingue entre "jure imperii" y el "jure gestionis". El "jure imperii" existe cuando el Estado o un Ente Internacional actúan cumpliendo sus fines propios de derecho público, y el "jure gestionis" existe cuando se adapta a una transacción de derecho privado. Un Estado, un Ente Internacional, puede actuar con su derecho de imperio, o actuar como un ciudadano particular.
Tanto en el estudio del Director General como en la sentencia de la Corte, se reconoce que en materia de "jure imperii", la inmunidad de jurisdicción es absoluta, no hay ninguna duda.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you for studying this problem in such great detail and sharing your analysis with us.
M. TATIETA (Haute-Volta): La delegation de Haute-Volta constate avec regret que les recommandations du Conseil tenu en décembre de l'année dernière n'ont pas reçu un début d'exécution favorable. Notre délégation pense que le pays hôte n'a pas pris toutes les mesures adéquates pour faciliter le bon fonctionnement de l'Organisation, bien au contraire. Cette attitude reste à nos yeux incompréhensible et difficilement tolerable. La délégation de Haute-Volta renouvelle le souhait qu'elle avait formulé lors du dernier Conseil, à savoir que la FAO ne soit plus traînée devant les tribunaux, et cela conformément aux textes qui lui donnent l'immunité de juridiction.
La délégation approuve la proposition tendant à faire une recommandation appropriée en vue de résoudre le problème.
M. PHOOFOLO (Lesotho): It would seem to us that the whole approach to this question is a little bit wrong. We feel that there is no need for FAO to contact landlords direct. In our opinion the Minister of Foreign Affairs can provide a very good media of communication between FAO and landlords or the national cause.
We fully appreciate all that has been done by the Ambassador of Italy and the Director-General to try to resolve the question of FAO's immunity to legal procedures. However, what we would like to have clarification on, and perhaps the Ambassador of Italy would help, is what role the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Republic of Italy has played or tries to play in order to insulate FAO from aggression originating from landlords or national cause.
As several delegates indicated in last year's FAO meeting, FAO is an international organization of the United Nations and it must retain its immunity against being sued by landlords. If there is any case of contention between FAO and the host government or the landlords we feel that it is for the parties involved to ask the Minister of Foreign Affairs to mediate. Then if the Minister of Foreign Affairs finds difficulty in dealing with the bone of contention FAO can refer the matter to the United Nations or to the International Court at the Hague.
Our delegation takes the cue from the delegates of India, Pakistan, the United States of America and other delegates who have spoken, that this Council has a resolution requesting the host government to enact appropriate legislation that will ensure immunity of FAO against legal processes. I am not a lawyer, but I believe somebody can draft such a resolution.
F.G. POULIDES (Cyprus): This is one of the important problems which the Director-General brought to our attention once again. We are glad to have the benefit of such a detailed introduction by
Mr. West.Let me say at the outset that my delegation is extremely concerned about the seriousness of the problem and the lack of a solution, despite having been identified by the Director-General and despite his strenuous attempts to achieve satisfaction from the host country.
We appreciate very much the efforts of the Italian government to resolve this serious problem. We are dealing with one of the most fundamental issues affecting the location of our Organization. The question of immunity for an intergovernmental organization, as we all know, is less than the question of sanctity of a place of worship.
Immunity has been accorded and assured to our Organization by the Government of Italy through the headquarters agreement and the law of the Italian parliament. We are therefore amazed that despite this immunity guaranteed under Italian law, developments have taken a strange course-, as reported to us by the relevant document.
Furthermore it is difficult to understand that the action specifically requested from the Government of Italy by our Council at its last session has not been considered, and this despite the urging of the Independent Chairman of the Council and the Director-General. There is no written confirmation by the Government which assures the Director-General that no measures of execution would be taken against the Organization, although we appreciate the reassuring declaration of the Ambassador of Italy.
In the past we have requested the Director-General not to respond and not to participate in any legal proceedings. But such actions are an obvious stress on the smooth-running of the Organization and tend to besmirch its image and good name.
My delegation therefore suggests that the Council once again requests the Government of Italy as a matter of urgency to take steps first to provide written confirmation that no measure of execution will be taken against the Organization, and secondly that it will take steps through the necessary legislative measures to ensure FAO's immunity from the legal process.
We would furthermore suggest that the response of the Government of Italy on this issue should be brought to our attention at our next session and perhaps to the attention of the forthcoming Conference.
CHAIRMAN: I think it is obvious that Council Members would like to give their full support to the Director-General in helping the Organization to get the problem solved. We expressed our serious concern last time, and I must say that the replies of the Government of Italy have been very helpful. In fact you have asked me also to supplement the efforts of the Director-General by writing letters, and Mr. West and the documents mention this. I will read a sentence from the reply received from the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Colombo. There is a sentence of the Corte di Cassazione on this subject: "... and I think we should take it as a point of departure to seek a solution which can be satisfactory both for Italy and for FAO". And there are more things of this kind, which show that they would like to be as helpful as possible, so we should request the Government of Italy to help us and to help the Director-General to get the problem solved, so that we are able to come to a satisfactory solution.
I would suggest therefore that we endorse what Mr. West said earlier. The Council could pass a resolution although, as the delegate of the United States said, it would have been useful if the CCLM could have considered the resolution and we could have had the draft before us. So I suggest that once Mr. West explains what the provisions of this resolution are, the Drafting Committee should consider it and let it come to us through the Drafting Committee and we can consider it in the Plenary. If it is acceptable to you, then I would request Mr. West first to indicate what the provisions of the Resolution will be, then we"authorize the Drafting Committee to come to us with a recommendation on the precise wording of the Resolution. Mr. West has the floor.
DEPUTY DIRECTOR-GENERAL: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I will do that, but first let me make one or two additional comments. I would like to say that the merits of our case which have been discussed are not relevant to the subject of immunity, but just to reassure any who have their doubts still about it, among the Observers if not among the Council itself, on one aspect, the Italian Court has found that we were right and the landlord was wrong, so we have nothing to be ashamed of in that regard.
On the other aspect, it is not a question of the landlord asking for something which we consider excessive but somebody else might consider reasonable. It is a straightforward question, whether the provisions of the contract for indexation were frozen by Italian law or not, so it is not a question of negotiating whether we are being grasping or unreasonable, it is a straightforward legal question.
As I say, even if the Court finds against us on that we have nothing to be ashamed of nor is it really relevant, but as I say, it is not a question which now concerns us because we are dealing with immunity.
I think the Director-General would have strongly supported the point made by one delegation that this matter is not a question for negotiation in connexion with other matters outstanding between the Host Government and ourselves. It stands on its own. It is too important to mix up with other matters, and I am very glad indeed to note that the Ambassador of Italy said that the Italian Government accepted this and were prepared to deal with it separately.
The third and last point before I come to the Resolution: why is it that the Director-General and Members of the Council are so concerned about having some concrete evidence of guarantee against execution? It is because it is possible, for example, that a court official who is not under the jurisdiction of the Italian authorities might seek to deliver a Court order against FAO or one of FAO's contractual agents, such as the Banca Commerciale Italiana, and the Italian Government may not have the same opportunity in that case to stop execution as it would if its own officials were given the - I am glad that the Italian Ambassador is disagreeing with me - but I think that the question of having something written is very important in order to protect us against ill-advised ventures.
Also, I think you yourself, Mr. Chairman, just made the point that since we are going to have elections and a new government, it would help the Permanent Representative to have this from the Council in the efforts which we know he is making himself with great goodwill and energy on our behalf. We want to fortify his stance.
After the appropriate preambular references, what we have in mind is that the Council would urge the Host Government firstly to take concrete measures to be sure that no measures of execution are applied and to ensure that we are protected against an attempt to apply them and to provide the Director-General and the Council with written information thereon that may be feasible and appropriate; secondly, to take the necessary action to resolve the dispute with the landlords of Building F without recourse to the Courts, so here we do envisage that the problem should be settled but not by FAO with the landlords, but by the Host Government with the landlords; thirdly, to bring our status and the text of Section 17 of the Headquarters Agreement to the attention of the Tribunale di Roma in order to prevent any attempt to freeze our assets and then to request the Director-General to continue to keep the matter under review and to continue to report, to continue to refrain from participating in actions in the Courts and to take any measures that may be necessary and appropriate - I hope that does not include a hunger strike - to resist any attempt to apply measures of execution against FAO and to obtain the protection of the Host Government, so I do not think this draft should present any difficulty, no new problem therein for the Council, and we will present a proper text in the Draft Report for the consideration of the Drafting Committee and the Council.
L. ARIZA HIDALGO (Cuba): El punto ha sido discutido en extenso, y, lamentablemente, estamos en el mismo punto, en el mismo lugar que en el Consejo anterior. Decimos lamentablemente porque la delegación italiana ha tenido la intención, ha tenido sus mejores esfuerzos en explicarnos la situación real por la que se atraviesa para que el poder ejecutivo pueda aplicar el Acuerdo de Sede, en vez de aceptar que los tribunales hayan aplicado el derecho privado a un organismo internacional con acuerdo de Sede. Bien, no quisiera entrar en consideraciones jurídicas porque creo que se han dado bastantes. Nosotros, después de oir la proposición del Dr. West, sería la resolución que se propone, y como se ha hablado bastante en sala de la preocupación, saliendo un poco ya del marco jurídico, quisiéramos caer en el marco de los refranes. En mi país se dice que la preocupación es lo que nos hace crecer las canas, o quedarnos sin con qué peinarnos. Entonces no creemos que el problema sea preocupación, el problema creemos que es de ocupación específicamente en vez de preocupación. Vamos a dejar de preocuparnos, por lo tanto, del problema y vamos a ocuparnos de él. Creemos que lo más objetivo, después del análisis que se ha hecho esta tarde aquí, es apoyar la resolución propuesta para tener por lo menos una respuesta también real. Una respuesta que garantice que la inmunidad de un organismo internacional que tiene una función internacional, una función que la humanidad espera, y que realmente no podemos esperar más en la espada de Damocles, esperando que el poder ejecutivo sea el que nos perdone, que la judicatura quiera aplicar el derecho privado. Por lo tanto, nuestra delegación apoya en todas sus partes la Resolución que se propone.
R.C. GUPTA (India): Mr. Chairman, I would beg your indulgence if I have not understood the text or the outline of the Draft Resolution suggested by the Deputy Director-General, but if I understood it correctly, it does not make any mention of urging upon the Host Government to take legislative measures, either by the exchange of that ratified by Parliament or by a separate law altogether to fully and clearly define and protect the immunity of the FAO. My delegation feels that this should be clearly spelled out so as not to be left ambiguous at all.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. In fact, Mr. West just pointed out to me that he forgot to refer to that section of the Resolution which exactly says what India stated, to take expeditious measures of a legislative nature to uphold the sanctity of Article VIII, Section 16 of the Headquarters Agreement concerning FAO's immunity from every form of legal process. That is really the solution and it is there, but he just forgot to bring it out.
R. SALLERY (Canada): I appreciate very much the introductory comments that were given to us by Mr. West and also those made by the Ambassador from El Salvador. I agree with what our American colleague had said earlier, that it would have been preferable for this Council to have a document in front of us, preferably not only immediately, yesterday or today, but some time ago. I am a little concerned, therefore, that even if it gets to the Drafting Committee and that it gets worked out that we will not have sufficient opportunity to express our Canadian concern about such a draft.
I have listened very carefully to the discussion that has taken place here this afternoon, and I must say that I have both sympathy and empathy with the Government of Italy. I, like many others here, have expressed our appreciation for the goodwill of the Italian Government. It is no secret, of course, that they have put in a very large amount of money to the multilateral development effort, $500 million last year; they are under considerable pressure not only from the FAO but from other UN institutions like IFAD and so on to provide additional facilities, so certainly their goodwill and their charity and humanitarian concern is not in question here.
Our emphatic reaction comes because recent decisions of Canadian courts tend to support the view that a sovereign or diplomatic immunity does not extend to leases entered into by a foreign government, and it is believed that a similar approach could perhaps be applicable to international institutions. This decision in Canadian courts has not been made yet, and we would leave it to our Supreme Court to make that final decision.
On July 15, 1982, what we call the State Immunity Act - the full title is An Act To Provide For State Immunity In Canadian Courts - entered into force, incorporating into Canadian law the principle that a foreign State may be brought before the Courts of Canada in respect of its commercial acts. This, of course, is the act jure gestionis as distinguished from its governmental acts, which are the act jure imperii. It thus restricts the immunity in certain respects so as to place them in a legal position that more readily approximates that of an ordinary Canadian citizen with specific reference to commercial activity.
In its most basic terms, this Act provides that foreign countries should under certain circumstances be suable in Canadian courts. My Government in a circular note which was sent to all diplomatic missions in Ottawa - the note number was LAA2098 - which has been received by, I think, almost every Member of this Council who has representation in Ottawa, provided a copy of that Act, and the Act did enter into force on July 15th. It does, as I have said, incorporate into Canadian law the principle that a foreign State may be brought before the Courts of Canada in respect to its commercial acts and activities. It thus restricts their immunity in certain respects so as to place them in a legal position which approximates that of an ordinary Canadian citizen.
There has been considerable uncertainty in the law in the past about immunity to which foreign States are entitled in Canadian Courts which have tended to apply the principle that we have talked about here, that of absolute immunity. This principle, we feel, or our courts have felt, was developed in another time and under other circumstances, and that in fact it has gradually been abandoned over the years by many States. Many commentators and experts in the field of international and constitutional law have suggested for some time that Canada, as well as other States, should move to the restricted immunity principle. That suggestion was prompted for two principle reasons, the first has to do with the position of both federal and provincial governments in Canada before the Canadian Courts. In the last thirty years the principle of Crown immunity has been substantially modified so that those governments are generally suable in Canadian Courts. That trend has reinforced the view that foreign countries, and perhaps international institutions should, under certain circumstances, be suable also in Canadian Courts. It is for this reason, Mr. Chairman, we feel some empathy with what is currently occurring in the Italian courts.
The other main factor, both in Canada and abroad, in favour of limiting the immunity of foreign States has been a substantial increase during recent years in the level of commercial activity carried on by States. As they increasingly became involved in various kinds of commercial activities it became more difficult to rationalize the concept of absolute immunity. Now our act affirms the rule that immunity is to apply notwithstanding the failure of the State to take any steps in the proceedings, and sets out the circumstances in which immunity is to be denied by way of enumerated exceptions to this general grant of jurisdictionary immunity.
The act however changes the law with effect to execution - again an element of concern here. It does grant general immunity from execution, attachment and the like to property of a foreign State, subject again however to certain exceptions.
Finally, Mr. Chairman, the property of a foreign central bank not used or intended for commercial purposes is also exempted from executions. Certain special remedies are not available against the State without its written consent, and the act also codifies procedural provisions which relate inter alia to the service of documents.
Mr. Chairman, the principle of reciprocity among States is ensured by providing the governing council with authority to restrict immunity, and provision is made for proving the status of a foreign state, its territories, sub-divisions, by a certificate issued by our Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. Perhaps that can be done in this case also.
Finally, Mr. Chairman, in recognition of certain traditional privileges and immunities accorded to foreign states, the act provides that overriding effect is to be given to the Diplomatic and Consular Activities and Immunities Act. Mr. Chairman, if we adopt the resolution which puts us in a position of somehow going contrary to an act which has already been adopted by the Federal Parliament of Canada, I am afraid my delegation would have to reserve its position on it.
DEPUTY DIRECTOR-GENERAL: I am sure delegates were interested to hear all this about the situation in one of the countries in the Council and I am sorry if this creates any embarrassment for him in supporting the resolution. On the other hand there are two points, one I make myself and the other I ask our Legal Counsel to make.
The first point is that while it might be difficult for Canada to support this resolution, it has been fully evident from the statement of the distinguished representative of the Host Government that the Italian Government does not have any doubts about FAO's immunity in Italy which is not the concern of any other country. It is for Italy and FAO to determine the position of FAO in Italy together with the approval of the governing body as a whole. So what is done in other countries which might be different, is not relevant to the situation of FAO in Italy on which the Host Government has no doubts, because it has given us this assurance that it will not take any measures of execution.
The other point is whether in fact what has just been said has relevance to FAO's position, and on that I would ask the Legal Counsel to say a few words.
LEGAL COUNSEL: If I may venture to say so, Sir, I think the distinguished delegate of Canada is in very good company in that he would, I think, agree with some of the arguments of the Corte di Cassazione. But in our opinion - and this is I think a point which is worth recording - the application of the distinction between acts performed, jure imperii or jure gestionis to intergovernmental organizations is a basic error.
The position of States is quite different from that of intergovernmental organizations. States quite clearly carry out a lot of activities, and have been doing so very much more over the last fifty years, through trading agencies and in general performed many clearly commercial activities. Intergovernmental organizations, on the other hand, do not carry out commercial activities. It cannot be said that FAO rents premises, because its existing accommodation is insufficient, as a commercial activity. And it is the basic and fundamental argument on which intergovernmental organizations throughout the UN system rely when they claim the unrestricted immunity which is quite clearly provided for in the FAO Headquarters agreement and, more generally in the almost identically worded provision in the Convention on the Privileges and Immunities of the Specialized Agencies to which some eighty odd States are party.
So I think this is where we have to make a basic distinction between intergovernmental organizations and states. The question of state immunity is in fact being discussed by the International Law Commission at the moment, and there is an extremely detailed and interesting report on the subject from its rapporteur who happens to be in Rome - he is the Thai Ambassador to Italy and he has done some extremely learned research on the matter -. The immunities of States are, I would submit, a very different matter to the immunities of intergovernmental organizations whose immunities vary very considerably even within a single country. These immunities depend on the treaties which contain them; that is to say for FAO in Italy on its Headquarters agreement. In Italy there are intergovernmental organizations which have quite different headquarters agreements and this is one of the reasons why we insist on our interpretation of section 16 of the FAO Headquarters Agreement. I do not think this interpretation is in dispute: certainly the Ministry of Foreign Affairs appears to agree that the text of section 16 of the Headquarters agreement gives FAO unrestricted immunity. Therefore, where a given text confers immunity on an intergovernmental organization it is that text itself which has to be analyzed. And, as I said before, although the texts may vary, in the case of organizations in the United Nations system which are covered by the Convention on the Privileges and Immunities of the Specialized Agencies, or the FAO Headquarters Agreement which has an identical provision, the immunity is unrestricted.
M. FRANCISCI DI BASCHI (Italie) : Nous n'avons aucune objection à l'adoption d'une résolution par le Conseil sur ce problème d'immunité de juridiction. Je pense quand même qu'il serait opportun que cette résolution ait un contenu disons générique et pas spécifique parce que je pense que c'est le Gouvernement italien, vis-à-vis de la situation italienne, de la doctrine juridique italienne, de la situation de la FAO en Italie, qui est à même de juger quelles sont les mesures qu'il faut adopter sur le plan national, sur le plan juridique, sur le plan des mesures d'exécution. Donc, ce que je voudrais recommander au Conseil, à travers vous M. le Président, c'est de penser à une résolution qui ait ce caractère.
R. SALLERY (Canada): Just to reply to Mr. West, and contrary to what he is suggesting, the issue is important to us and it is related to what is happening here. The very fact that the issue is being considered at an international level and the fact that it is being considered at this moment in Canada by our Supreme Court as to whether or not it does apply to international intergovernmental institutions, shows it does have merit at least in our humble opinion. We agree with what the Italian Ambassador said and what you yourself have suggested, Mr. Chairman, that this resolution - and this is the reason I made this intervention - should be general enough but certainly supportive enough for the institution, but not so that some of us may have to break a consensus that you seem to want so badly.
SR. G. BULA HOYOS (Colombia): La Delegación de Colombia no ha intervenido en este tema porque hemos compartido plenamente las declaraciones que han hecho, entre otros colegas, los Representantes de la India, El Salvador y Chipre. Hemos seguido con atención la declaración de los colegas de Estados Unidos y del Canadá, y consideramos que esas declaraciones corresponden a la justa prudencia, a la Secretaría, y a la ponderación con que actúan en casos como éste.
Naturalmente, habría sido más deseable que el CACJ nos hubiera tramitado un proyecto de resolución, pero no podemos olvidar que el CACJ tiene el carácter de órgano asesor del Consejo, que no puede tener iniciativas propias, sino que se limita a considerar aquellos asuntos que le transmite el Consejo.
Igualmente es necesario que el CACJ materialice en proyecto de resolución esas iniciativas del Consejo basadas en sus recomendaciones. Pero en este caso el CACJ no podía adivinar de antemano cuáles iban a ser las posiciones del Consejo; no tenía una recomendación del Consejo, y por lo tanto, no podía presentar un proyecto de resolución.
Nosotros creemos que el Proyecto de Resolución debe ser elaborado en términos sencillos, constructivos, con ánimo positivo y no polémico, y preservar las referencias a que ha hecho alusión el distinguido Embajador de Italia. Esperamos que esto no sea difícil concebirlo así, porque, sin duda, hay acuerdo general sobre los términos de ese Proyecto de Resolución, y especialmente, sobre el espíritu de ese Proyecto. Además, el Representante de Estados Unidos es miembro del Comité de Redacción y tendrá una primera oportunidad para analizar los términos del mencionado Proyecto. Resumiendo, yo creo que conviene dar por terminada la discusión de ese asunto, elaborar el Proyecto de Resolución con la Secretaría para llevarlo luego a la Plenaria.
CHAIRMAN: I think we will leave it to the Drafting Committee. There are enough guidelines as to what kind of resolution the Council would like to see. I want to thank everyone who has made a useful contribution and I particularly want to thank the Ambassador of Italy for his most helpful statement.
As I told you earlier, I shall now request our Vice-Chairman, Dr. Hamdi, whom I introduced the other day - he is a very distinguished micro-biologist - to take the Chair for the rest of the afternoon's session.
Sr. L. ARIZA HIDALGO (Presidente del Comité de redacción): Quiero recordar a los miembros del Comité, que esta tarde, tan pronto termine esta Plenaria, vamos a terminar los dos documentos que nos quedan y creo que los podremos resolver en media hora y así mañana tendríamos la mañana limpia para todos los documentos nuevos que se están preparando.
Y.A. Hamdi, Vice-Chairman of the Council, took the chair.
Y.A. Hamdi, Vice-Président du Conseil, assume la présidence.
Ocupa la presidencia Y.A. Hamdi, Vicepresidente del Consejo.
CHAIRMAN: (original language Arabic): I would like to thank the Chairman of the Council for having passed the Chairmanship to me. We have to finish the items on our Agenda for today by the end of this meeting. Therefore I appeal to you to be brief.
(a) Abolition of the Animal Production and Health Commission in the Near East, the Near East Plant Protection Commission, and the Commission on Horticultural Production in the Near East and North Africa - and Establishment of the "Near East Regional Commission on Agriculture"
(a) Suppression de la Commission de la production et de la sante animales au Proche-Orient, de la Commission de la protection des plantes pour le Proche-Orient, et de la Commission de la production horticole dans la zone du Proche-Orient et de l'Afrique du Nord et création d'une Commission régionale de l'agriculture au Proche-Orient
(a) Supresión de la Comisión de Producción y Sanidad Pecuarias en el Cercano Oriente, la Comisión de Protección Fitosanitaria para el Cercano Oriente, y la Comisión sobre Protección Hortícola en el Cercano Oriente y Africa del Norte - x establecimiento de la "Comisión Regional de Agricultura para el Cercano Oriente"
(b) Abolition of the Regional Food and Nutrition Commission for the Near East, the Near East Commission on Agricultural Planning, and the Near East Commission on Agricultural Statistics and Establishment of the "Near East Regional Economic and Social Policy Commission"
(b) Suppression de la Commission régionale de l'alimentation et de la nutrition au Proche-Orient, de la Commission de la planification agricole pour le Proche-Orient et de la Commission des statistiques agricoles pour le Proche-Orient et création d'une Commission régionale des politiques économiques et sociales du Proche-Orient
(b) Supresión de la Comisión Regional de Alimentación y Nutrición para el Cercano Oriente, la Comisión sobre Planificación Agrícola para el Cercano Oriente y la Comisión del Cercano Oriente sobre Estadísticas Agrícolas y establecimiento de la "Comisión Regional de la Política Economica y Social para el Cercano Oriente"
S. JUM'A (Assistant Director-General, Regional Representative for the Near East): (original language Arabic): As was said by the Chairman, it is very late, therefore the Secretariat should contribute by being brief in the presentation of the documents which we still have before us, so that the Council can complete its work this afternoon.
The item which we have before us concerns the Near East Statutory Bodies and this is contained in Council Document CL 83/13. Briefly, the situation is as follows: the Conference in 1979 requested the Regional Conferences to review the statutory bodies working within those regions, to see to it that those bodies work regularly and provide services to Member Countries in line with the Resolution which set them up. The Regional Office for the Near East responded to this request of the Conference and prepared a detailed study with regard to the Statutory Bodies in the Near East. This study arrived at specific proposals. The study and the proposals have been submitted to the 16th .Regional Conference which was held in Cyprus last year.
During the discussion of these proposals they were approved with slight amendments and the document now before you, CL 83/13, contains a summary of these questions and the specific proposals dealing first of all with the abolition of six regional bodies and their replacement by two other bodies.
The first proposal concerns the setting up of a new Regional Commission called the Near East Regional Commission on Agriculture. In conformity with this decision we would abolish the other regional bodies which worked in the field of agriculture, that is to say the Commission on Plant Protection and the Commission on Horticultural Production, and the Animal Production and Health Commission in the Near East. Therefore, from a practical point of view, the abolition was followed by what was really a pooling of these organizations or bodies in one body called the Commission on Agriculture.
With regard to the second proposal, the establishment of a Near East Regional and Social Policy Commission, this would also lead to the abolition of the following bodies: the regional Food and Nutrition Commission for the Near East, the Near East Commission on Agricultural Planning and the Near East Commission on Agricultural Statistics. Therefore the question now before you really concerns the adoption of the Resolution setting up these two Commissions and abolishing the six other Commissions I mentioned. Under the FAO Constitution the authority to set up regional bodies is held by the Council or the Conference, and that is why we wanted to submit these proposals to you, in the hope that the setting up of these new Commissions will be approved as well as the abolition of the preceding Commissions.
G. BULA HOYOS (Colombia): La Delegación de Colombia, al intervenir sobre este tema, tiene
dos motivos de complacencia: el primero, verlo a usted en la dirección de nuestros debates y sabe usted cuan sincera es la amistad que le profesamos y nuestra admiración por su país. El segundo, es el hecho de que este tema haya sido presentado por nuestro amigo Jum'a, Subdirector General, Representante para la Región del Cercano Oriente, con quien compartimos en años anteriores nuestras labores como miembros del Consejo.
La delegación de Colombia piensa que estas propuestas corresponden a la voluntad de los gobiernos de la Región del Medio Oriente expresadas en su propia Conferencia Regional, que además están de acuerdo con los criterios que impone la supresión de Comisiones que no sean eficientes y la creación de nuevos órganos que representen verdaderos beneficios para la región. Con ese espíritu la delegación de Colombia apoya plenamente esas dos propuestas.
H.F. NAJEB (Iraq): First of all we would like to express our gratitude to Mr. Jum'a, the Assistant Director-General for the Near East, for his very clear introduction of this item of the Agenda. This matter arises from a decision taken by the Conference in 1979 and the decision of the Regional Conference which approved the wish expressed by the Council that the work of the regional bodies should be improved, and also the decision adopted by the Regional Conference in Cyprus which was adopted unanimously by all the countries present at this Regional Conference.
The result was the reduction of the number of regional bodies from 9 to 5. I therefore believe that it would be suitable and desirable that the Council should approve the draft resolution contained in this document and thus it could endorse the decisions adopted universally by the Regional Conference in Cyprus.
F. G. POULIDES (Cyprus): First of all I would like to say how glad I am to see the new Chairman.
The Cyprus delegation has carefully studied the document CL 83/13 regarding the Near East Statutory Bodies for which we would like to commend the Secretariat for its preparation. We would also like to thank Mr. Jum'a, the Assistant Director-General, for his very clear and concise introduction.
As it is stated in paragraph III, there are a great number of regional commissions presently established in the Near East, but as it is mentioned in paragraph 7 the meetings of this commission have become erratic due to various constraints and weaknesses. It is easy for one to understand that the scope of this commission is not fulfilled due to the minor interest and the gradual loss of initial enthusiasm and momentum, as it is mentioned also in the same paragraph 7.
Decreasing the number of the commissions and widening the scope of some of them is expected to lead to an increased interest and a better coverage of the problems faced by the countries of the region, with this thinking we agree with paragraphs 13 and 15.
Taking into consideration the recommendations made by the Sixteenth FAO Regional Conference for the Near East, based on recommendations of previous regional conferences of the Near East, we fully endorse the establishment of the two regional commissions in the Near East and the suggested abolition of six of the existing commissions. Furthermore, the Regional Commission on Land and Water for the Near East, the Near East Forestry Commission, should continue to operate. Also the Commission for Controlling the Desert Locust in the Near East should continue to carry out its functions in accordance with the agreement by which it was established.
T. NEGASH (Ethiopia): First of all I wish to express how happy I am to see you chairing this important session.
My country fully supports the efforts by FAO or by Member Nations of the Near East region to improve or enhance collectively or individually the economic situation of the region. We understand a new commission, named the Economic and Social Policy Commission is to replace the former Food and Nutrition Commission, the Commission on Agricultural Statistics, Agricultural and Planning
Commission, but we think the terms of reference of the new commission, i.e., handling nutrition statistics and agricultural planning do not fully reflect the title or name given to the new commission. When we say Economic and Social Policy Commission we are referring to the whole spectrum, of economic and social activities. As the terms of reference indicate, however, the coverage is limited only to part of the agricultural sector. We would therefore appreciate it very much if further explanation could be made regarding the disparity between the title and the terms of reference, to remove any confusion.
With this we endorse the establishment of the new commission as presented by the Secretariat.
A. H. EL-SARKI (Egypt) (Original language Arabic): First of all I would like to congratulate you on seeing you chairing this meeting.
My country took part in the Near East Regional Conference which was held in Cyprus and it also took part in the discussions on the modifications made by FAO to the statutory bodies for the Near East. My delegation fully supports these amendments for their usefulness as clearly described in the relevant document. My delegation supports that the Commission on Desert Locust be maintained and also the Land and Water Commission.
T. AHMED (Pakistan): It is indeed a pleasure to see you sitting there. We first of all wish to convey our appreciation to Dr. Jum'a for the introduction and as you will recall we were a member of the Near East Regional Conference in Cyprus where this issue was debated and it was indeed a very lively debate, if I remember Dr. Jum'a's participation in that discussion and we fully support and appreciate the fact that the Director-General has responded to the requests of the Regional Conference and we support the Draft Resolution in appendices A, B and C.
M.I. MAHDI (Saudi Arabia) (Original language Arabic): I am very glad to see you chairing this meeting and I would like to congratulate Mr. Jum'a on the very clear presentation he made. I also join all those who supported the creation of these two new committees.
S. JUM'A (Assistant Director-General, Regional Representative for the Near East) (Original language Arabic): First I would like to thank the delegates who did not speak because he who is silent agrees, silence is consent, therefore I thank them. I also thank all those delegates from the Near East or from other regions who spoke and particularly Ambassador Bula Hoyos, my friend who opened the discussion, and to approve the proposals which are presented on this. I would also like to thank the delegate of Ethiopia who was good enough to ask for something to be made clear, the name of the commission, why it is called the Commission for Economic and Social Policy, whereas the regional commissions usually have other names, such as the Statistics Commission or the Food and Nutrition Commission, etc. In fact, the reason for that is that what is essential is the content and not the actual name. This new commission will deal with all questions which were discussed by the other commissions which have been abolished. We chose that name so that it would fit in with the name applied within FAO because we all know that all the various technical divisions come in the framework of economic and social policies and therefore we decided that the new name of the commission should be in accordance with the administrative structure of FAO so as to coordinate the work of that commission with the work of the technical department which works within FAO itself. Therefore the name does not mean that we will not take any interest in planning of statistics or nutrition. Just glancing at the terms of the reference of this new regional commission will show you that we shall continue to take an interest in these important problems.
CHAIRMAN (Original language Arabic): I would like to thank the Assistant Director-General for the Near East. Following on this discussion and your support the Council approves the establishment of the Regional Commission on Agriculture for the Near East and the creation of a Regional Commission for Economic and Social Policies in the Near East.
LE SECRETAIRE GENERAL: Il y a sur ce point deux éléments, d'abord un élément d'information et ensuite un élément de décision.
Le premier élément dinformation concerne les invitations à des Etats non membres de la FAO, en conformité avec les paragraphes pertinents des textes fondamentaux de l'Organisation. Compte tenu de l'urgence des cas qui vous sont soumis, et qui ne lui a pas permis de consulter le Conseil à temps, le Directeur général a invité Singapour et l'U.R.S.S. à assister respectivement à une consultation technique qui s'est tenue en Inde au mois de janvier, et à la 25ème session de la Commission européenne de la lutte contre la fièvre aphteuse qui s'est tenue à Rome en avril 1983.
Le Directeur général porte cette information à votre connaissance, en précisant que la contribution des deux Etats membres à ces réunions a été positive et utile.
L'élément de décision concerne les demandes de participation formulées par l'U.R.S.S. en qualité d'observateur à la 15ème session du Comité des pêches qui se tiendra à Rome du 10 au 19 octobre 1983. Le Directeur général sollicite votre approbation pour adresser une invitation à ce pays.
CHAIRMAN (Original language Arabic) : It seems that everybody approves the issuing of that invitation.
LE SECRETAIRE GENERAL: Le document CL 83/INF/10 concerne la décision du Gouvernement français de remplacer M. Philippe Guerin, qui était membre du Comité du programme, par M. Marcel Mazoyer, qui a pris part d'ailleurs aux travaux du dernier Comité du programme. Vous trouverez au verso de ce document tous les documents concernant M. Mazoyer, dont la contribution à la dernière réunion du Comité du programme a été très utile et positive.
M. TRKULJA (Chairman, Programme Committee): With your indulgence I would say a couple of sentences on behalf of the Programme Committee. As explained by Mr. Sylla, Mr. Philip Guerin was unable to attend the Programme Committee sessions and he was replaced by Professor Marcel Mazoyer, I only want to mention that Professor Mazoyer is a specialist in the core activities of FAO in agricultural forestry and agricultural economics and a very outstanding professor of the National Institute of Agricultural Development in Paris. I want to say on behalf of my colleagues that he attended the last session and, as Mr. Sylla already indicated, made quite a contribution. We are positive that in the future also he will provide a very valuable contribution to the Programme Committee and through the Programme Committee to the Council.
G. TCHICAYA (Congo): Je voudrais prendre la parole pour apporter l'appui de ma delegation à la candidature de M. Marcel Mazoyer.
Marcel Mazoyer est connu d'un certain nombre d'entre nous. Il a manifesté beaucoup d'intérêt aux activités de la FAO et aux activités agricoles tout court. Nous pensons que cet important Comité pourra bénéficier utilement de son expérience. D'ailleurs, en ce moment, il participe avec nous au Comité de rédaction et son concours est remarqué.
Pour cette raison, ma délégation apporte son soutien à cette candidature et voudrait le voir siéger au sein de notre Comité du Programme.
G. BULA HOYOS (Colombia): Los delegados de Colombia tuvimos el placer y la satisfacción de haber conocido y trabajado con el señor Guerin, quien antes ocupaba en nombre de Francia ese puesto en el Comité del Programa. Ahora registramos con igual complacencia que el señor Marcel Mazoyer ha reemplazado a su compatriota. Este otro distinguido representante del Gobierno de Francia viene también trabajando con nosotros en las labores del Consejo y estamos seguros de que su aporte seguirá contribuyendo al buen funcionamiento de ese importante organismo asesor del Consejo.
CHAIRMAN (original language Arabic): Are there any other comments? Very well. The Council therefore approves the modifications in the representation on the Programme Committee.
J.E. CARROZ, Assistant Director-General, World Conference on Fisheries Management and Development: The attention of delegates is invited to document CL 83/7. The main purpose of the document is to provide, as requested by the Council at its last Session, provisional draft agendas for the two phases of the FAO World Conference on Fisheries Management and Development. Before giving you supplementary information on these drafts, I would like to provide a brief résumé of progress with preparations for the Conference.
The series of specialised consultations organised by the Fisheries Department on major subjects to be discussed at the Conference has been completed and the reports and recommendations of these meetings are being reflected in the working papers which will be submitted to the technical phase of the Conference in October of this year. A final preparatory seminar on the role of fish in world nutrition and the use of fish in food aid is to be organised next month at the kind invitation of the Government of Norway with FAO's collaboration.
It was very encouraging to note at the preparatory meetings, which were attended by experts from both developed and developing countries, that there is a growing awareness of the complementarity of interest that often exists between coastal states and foreign fishing countries. There is also recognition of the opportunities for effective collaboration between developing and developed countries and an expectation that the Conference will help both groups to adjust to the changed circumstances.
Extensive consultations have continued with Governments and international organizations, including a number of regional fishery commissions. I should also refer to a first inter-agency meeting which was convened by the Director-General here in Rome. I am pleased to say that the UN and the Specialized Agencies concerned expressed their readiness, with concrete examples, to cooperate with FAO in the Conference. Steps are also being taken to encourage the involvement of international non-governmental organizations with direct interest in fisheries, e.g. fishermens' professional associations.
Turning now to the draft agendas appearing in Appendices A and B of the document before you, I would stress that the proposals are strictly based upon the suggestions made by governments at the 1982 Regional Conferences and at sessions of FAO regional fishery bodies. We have endeavoured, as requested by the Council, to be selective with regard to topics suggested for discussion but, at the same time, to keep an integrated approach to the overall problem of the management and development of fisheries, including inland fisheries and aquaculture.
As will be seen from its draft agenda, the first phase of the Conference will be constituted by an extended 15th session of the Committee on Fisheries. It represents in effect the culmination of detailed discussions of the technical aspects of the issues. We now look forward to the interventions in October of senior fishery administrators and specialists with particular experience or expertise in the topics proposed for discussions.
The 1984 main phase of the Conference, at which it is anticipated that Ministers and policymakers will participate, will devote itself primarily to the consideration and adoption of proposals for a Strategy for Fisheries Management and Development and for specific action programmes. It is not intended to use the occasion for the creation of any new institutional mechanisms or the establishment of some special new Fund for fishery development.
It is envisaged that the Strategy should comprise principles and guidelines which would help in accomplishing the main objectives of the Conference, which are: the practical implementation of the new regime of the oceans in fisheries, enhanced self-reliance of developing countries, a greater contribution of fisheries to world food supplies, and improved cooperation both between deve-loped and developing countries and among the developing countries themselves in fisheries management and development. In this connection it has become clear in the course of our preparatory meeting and consultations that because of the pressures being exerted on many fish resources
throughout the world, the Conference will be held at a time when it becomes increasingly necessary to take a fresh look at national and joint strategies for fisheries management and development.
As regards proposals for specific programmes to promote fisheries management and development, four areas for action have so far been indentified: technical assistance, investment, training and trade. Points to be addressed in the elaboration of these programmes include the desirability of having short-term and long-tern: components, the question of their implementation at the regional, sub-regional or, where appropriate, national level, and finally the desirability of the participation, in their design and implementation, not only of FAO but also of other international institutions, donor agencies and governments. It will be particularly necessary for developing countries to help us ensure that their needs will be adequately met, I should note that at the technical phase of the Conference in October there will be an opportunity for a preliminary discussion of general frameworks for both the Strategy and the action programmes, as is apparent from the draft agendas before you.
In due course, the Committee on Fisheries and the World Fisheries Conference itself in 1984 will themselves adopt formally their respective agendas. Meanwhile, the observations and comments of the Council would be welcome,
G, BULA HOYOS (Colombia): La delegación de Colombia piensa que este es un buen documento que refleja el enfoque positivo con el cual el Director General de la FAO está organizando la importante Conferencia Mundial sobre Ordenación y Desarrollo Pesqueros que vamos a celebrar en junio del año entrante. Sobre la adecuada presentación del Sr, Carroz, la delegación de Colombia desea manifestar su complacencia por el hecho de que Noruega, autorizado y respetable observador de los países nórdicos en este Consejo, se disponga a ofrecer otra muestra del gran interés que esos países nórdicos han ofrecido siempre a la cooperación internacional al auspiciar el seminario a que se ha hecho referencia, todo lo cual va a contribuir, como esperamos, a que se estreche la cooperación entre países desarrollados y países en desarrollo.
Encontramos muy bien que se haya acogido la recomendación del Consejo al determinarse que un período ampliado del próximo decimoquinto período de sesiones del COFI, que vamos a celebrar del 10 al 19 de octubre próximo, sea la fase técnica de la Conferencia. Sin duda, todos recordamos que con motivo de Conferencias Mundiales anteriores solían constituirse comités preparatorios que costaban dinero y esfuerzo a los países, y a veces resultaban menos eficientes, esta solución de la fase técnica a través del propio COFI nos parece muy adecuada.
Apoyamos también la propuesta que se hace en el párrafo 7 sobre la composición de dos comisiones que van a funcionar con la Plenaria de la Conferencia: la Comisión I que se va a dedicar a la estrategia para la ordenación y desarrollo pesqueros, y la Comisión II, consagrada a los programas para la ordenación y desarrollo pesqueros. En el párrafo 8, consideramos que es importante que al elaborar ese proyecto de estrategia se tenga en cuenta la necesidad de respetar la soberanía nacional, y de preservar los derechos de todos los estados soberanos.
En el párrafo 9, encontramos también muy adecuada la sugestión que han hecho ya algunas conferencias regionales y que apoyamos plenamente sobre la necesidad de ir promoviendo la acción de donantes bilaterales y multilaterales que contribuyan con recursos para garantizar la ejecución de los programas de acción. Sólo así podremos obtener resultados positivos de esa importante conferencia. Igualmente, en el párrafo 11, la frase final del párrafo 11 hace relación a la posibilidad de que gobiernos y organismos donantes ayuden financieramente la asistencia a la Conferencia de Representantes de países en desarrollo, Ojalá que esto pueda lograrse porque, sin duda, hay muchos países en desarrollo que tienen técnicos, que tienen expertos y personal capacitado, pero que no están en condiciones adecuadas para hacerse representar en esa importante reunión.
Creo, Sr. Presidente, que dentro del tema que estamos tratando, sin duda la FAO merece un reconocimiento particular porque hace ya varios años, desde cuando la Conferencia de Naciones Unidas sobre Derechos del Mar estaba celebrando sus indefinidos períodos de sesiones, el Director General se preocupó de elaborar un Programa sobre Zonas Económicas Exclusivas, programa a través del cual se ha venido asistiendo a los países en desarrollo y especialmente a los pequeños países, para que esos estados puedan irse preparando como ya están tratando de hacerlo para hacer mejor uso, para ejercer de la mejor manera posible los derechos que han surgido de la recién firmada Convención sobre los Derechos Humanos, Creemos que esa labor de la FAO debe seguir intensificándose y, particularmente, también apoyamos la cooperación entre los países desarrollados y los países en desarrollo, la cooperación Norte-Sur, así como la cooperación Sur-Sur entre países en desarrollo.
En el programa que se propone para la 15a reunión del COFI, aparece en el punto 6 b) el informe sobre el programa de zonas económicas exclusivas, Suponemos que allí se van a presentar datos referentes a esa labor que está haciendo la FAO en favor de los pequeños países y que nosotros apoyamos plenamente.
En el programa mismo que se propone para la Conferencia, suponemos que en la parte tercera, en la estrategia para la ordenación y desarrollo pesqueros, la FAO insistirá en los objetivos, en los principios fundamentales que han orientado ese programa sobre zonas económicas exclusivas.
Nosotros estamos también muy satisfechos con el anuncio que nos ha hecho el Sr. Carroz en el sentido de que no se prevé, como conclusión de esa conferencia, que se vaya a establecer ningún mecanismo ni ningún fondo. Sabemos ya que existen demasiados mecanismos y demasiados fondos, que a la larga representan dispersión de recursos.
Consideramos que a través de las actividades de la FAO, el Director General esta adelantando una preparación muy adecuada que garantizará el buen éxito de esta Conferencia.
R.C, SERSALE DI CERISANO (Argentina)j En primer lugar, sentimos la obligación de felicitar y reiterar nuestro apoyo al Dr, Carroz ya la insustituible labor que él realiza para los preparativos de la Conferencia Mundial sobre Ordenación y Desarrollo Pesqueros.
Este sector de la alimentación aún no ha recibido, por parte de la Comunidad Internacional en su conjunto, la atención que se merece desde una perspectiva de la utilización económica del recurso.
Por nuestra parte, debemos reconocer que loa países en desarrollo, y en particular desde la adopción de la tesis de la zona económica esclusiva, no han optimizado la explotación del recurso pesca. A nuestro entender, ello se debe principalmente a la insuficiencia de trabajo especializado y capital.
Es en este sentido que la Argentina valora la labor de la FAO y tiene esperanzas en que toda su acción tienda a revestir las insuficiencias que tienen los países en desarrollo, con el fin de poder explotar racionalmente y en beneficio propio los recursos que le pertenecen.
Es en este contexto que aprobamos los proyectos de programas provisionales que nos sugiere la Secretaría en el documento CL 83/7. Pensamos que los temas ahí incluidos nos darán las posibilidades de analizar casi toda la problemática que hace al sector pesquero.
No obstante, y debido al poco tiempo que falta para la reunión de octubre, es que nos sería de gran utilidad contar con la documentación correspondiente, a los fines de poder contar con la opinión acabada de nuestras capitales al respecto.
Existen muchos temas sobre los cuales nos gustaría poder opinar ahora, pero esperaremos contar con la documentación para hacerlo. Tenemos confianza en que temas tan delicados como el 4 C, referido a las condiciones y control de acceso a los recursos ícticos en zonas económicas exclusivas, sean tratados exclusivamente desde su óptica económica, administrativa y técnica, y sobre todo contemplen los intereses de los estados costeros,
En cuanto a la agenda de la Conferencia Mundial vemos con gran satisfacción que se incluye un punto referido a los programas de capacitación global.
Decíamos, Sr, Presidente, al principio de nuestra intervención, que una de las mayores contribuciones que podía hacer la FAO al mundo en desarrollo era darle los instrumentos para explotar, en su beneficio, los recursos marinos que le pertenecen
Esto significa priorizar en el "Desarrollo Pesquero" y una de nuestras valencias mayores para poder hacerlo está en el área de la capacitación.
Concebimos la capacitación como un medio adecuado para formar y trasmitir, en todos los niveles que intervienen en la explotación del recurso pesca, los resultados de la experiencia mundial con el fin de minimizar los riesgos y de no incurrir en errores ya cometidos.
En la Argentina no existe un ámbito formativo que trate de manera sistemática el tema. Pensamos que el mismo debería incluir principalmente las áreas de; administración pesquera, investigaciones biológicas especialmente en dinámica poblacional de recursos vivos del mar, explotación pesquera con orientación hacia el sector empresario, formación de personal, y comercio internacional.
Estas son sólo algunas ideas que nos gustaría fueran tenidas en cuenta al tratar el capítulo IV, referido a Programas para la Ordenación y Desarrollo Pesqueros en la Conferencia Mundial el año próximo.
Sin intención de querer incluirlo en la agenda del Comité de Pesca, nos complacería que en octubre pudiésemos contar con un documento informativo sobre los programas de capacitación global en materia de pesca que realiza la FAO y las condiciones de acceso a los mismos,
Finalmente, queremos referirnos al segundo factor de la producción que decíamos al principio era insuficiente en nuestros países. Nos referimos al capital. No es secreto que un financiamiento adecuado es una palanca clave para la explotación del recurso pesquero.
Es por ello que solicitamos se incluya un punto, en la agenda de la Conferencia Mundial, referido a las posibilidades de financiamiento multilateral para desarrollo pesquero. Esto es todo lo que queríamos decir.
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Mrs. M. RAVN (Norway): First let me thank Mr. Carroz, Secretary General of the Conference, for his very informative introduction to this item. Substantial efforts have already gone into preparing the forthcoming FAO World Conference on Fisheries Management and Development, and judging from the draft agendas for its two phases, we think that a good job has been done. The proposed agenda for the technical phase of this conference, which will take place in October, will give FAO and Member Countries an opportunity to address all the pertinent issues relating to fisheries management and administration, and as such, we can give our overall support to the proposed agenda before us.
However, we would like to have some clarification on how the agenda of the technical phase links up with that of the policy phase. For instance, we expect, as mentioned by Mr. Carroz, that inland fisheries and aquaculture which were not mentioned in the policy phase agenda will be duly covered both in the strategy and in the action programme. We are, Mr. Chairman, strong supporters of a concentration on a few and important items for discussion at conferences of this kind. To create a better basis for the discussion in the second part of the Conference next year, there is, however, one point we would like to see added to the list of topics under agenda item 4. That concerns the question of fish in nutrition, which we feel is an area of the utmost importance in the overall context of formulating a management and development strategy which will make fish an instrument in food procurement policies.
We have in this connection noted that this subject will form a part of the Director-General's address to the Committee on fisheries at its 15th session. In addition the topic will be dealt with at an international experts seminar in July, to be hosted by the Norwegian Government as one preparatory input to the Conference, and which was already referred to by Mr. Carroz and the distinguished delegate of Colombia
Finally, Mr. Chairman, in expressing our support for the draft agenda we should like to stress that the different agenda items need specific and action-oriented background papers to ensure a substantive discussion. We would urge that these papers be made available well in advance of the meeting for our careful consideration.
G. WEISS (Observateur pour la Communauté économique européenne): Au nom de la CEE et au nom de ses Etats membres, je voudrais brièvement prendre la parole au sujet de la Conférence mondiale de la FAO, à laquelle nous portons un intérêt primordial, et faire quelques observations concernant sa préparation et le projet d'ordre du jour.
En effet, la Communauté et ses Etats membres estiment que beaucoup de pays s'interrogent sur les possibilités de développement de leurs pêcheries, sur les possibilités du maintien des activités de leurs pêcheurs, sur les relations entre pays cotiers et pays de pêches lointaines et sur de nombreuses autres questions intéressant ce secteur. Le monde de la mer a profondément changé depuis l'ouverture de la Troisième Conférence sur le Droit de la Mer, depuis ses travaux et la conclusion de celle-ci. Désormais, la responsabilité de la gestion des ressources halieutiques est placée pour une très large part entre les mains des Etats cotiers. A l'issue de cette phase de caractère institutionnel et constitutionnel, la communauté internationale entre définitivement dans la phase de gestion et de protection des ressources naturelles. C'est dans ce contexte que la Conférence marque son intérêt fondamental. Il paraît primordial de mettre en commun les efforts des pays cotiers, notamment des pays en voie de développement afin de leur permettre d'acquérir concrètement la maîtrise des ressources au large de leurs côtes, d'autant plus qu'il faut être attentif à ce que la Conférence se concentre sur les éléments essentiels de la stratégie future des pêcheries dans le monde.
Nous sommes heureux de constater que tous les efforts ont été déployés dans ce sens, d'autant qu'il nous paraît impossible d'améliorer le choix des thèmes à traiter sans affecter sérieusement l'équilibre astucieux entre les intérêts d'Etats et de populations confrontés aux situations très diverses en ce qui concerne les ressources exploitables, la technologie de la pêche disponible, les possibilités du développement de la pêche et de l'aquaculture ainsi que, ce n'est pas la moindre chose, l'approvisionnement en poisson surtout dans les régions ayant un déficit en protéines animales.
Nous voudrions en particulier souligner l'importance des travaux préparatoires dans des groupes de consultation d'experts qui ont eu et continuent d'avoir lieu sur les sujets spécifiques intéressant la Conférence. Si l'on peut avoir le sentiment que l'examen de la situation actuelle fait un peu défaut à l'ordre du jour, nous pensons que les rapports de ces groupes préparatoires nous donneront satisfaction à cet égard et seront les bases nécessaires des discussions qui doivent avoir lieu tant au sein du Comité des pêches qu'à la Conférence elle-même.
Nous croyons par ailleurs qu'il est de notre devoir de faire appel à la prudence car la Communauté et ses Etats membres craignent que la définition de besoins futurs, notamment en ce qui concerne l'amélioration des ressources et des technologies, le développement et souvent la création même des industries de la pêche, de la transformation des produits et de leur mise sur les marchés ainsi que la formation des gens de la mer, de l'industrie et du commerce risquent de trouver trop vite
leurs limites tant dans les disponibilités des ressources halieutiques que dans les capacités financières. Nous voudrions par conséquent plaider pour une certaine prudence lors de la définition des objectifs afin d'éviter des programmes trop ambitieux qui risqueraient, comme cela a été souvent le cas dans le passé, d'aboutir à une déception liée à des pertes financières importantes.
Je voudrais ajouter quelques mots sur l'intérêt de la CEE en tant que telle aux travaux de la Conférence et naturellement aux travaux de la FAO en matière de pêche. Parallèlement au développement du contexte juridique mondial, un changement fondamental a eu lieu en ce qui concerne les Etats membres de la CEE qui a conduit à la mise en oeuvre d'une politique commune de la pêche. Depuis 1976 la Communauté exerce en tant que telle des pouvoirs de législation et de gestion ainsi que des relations extérieures qui se rapportent à l'ensemble des activités de pêche des Etats membres qui la constituent. Sur le plan international et dans l'exercice des responsabilités qui lui ont été conférées, la Communauté a négocié et concludes accords de pêche, notamment avec les pays Scandinaves, africains et de l'Amérique du Nord et elle est devenue partie contractante de presque toutes les organisations internationales concernant la pêche. Le processus d'accession se poursuit pour les autres organisations. Dans le cadre de cette politique commune de la pêche, la Communauté est désormais directement impliquée dans les travaux considérables que la FAO entame à l'occasion de la Conférence mondiale et elle-même, et l'ensemble de ses Etats Membres, peuvent assurer le Conseil de leur volonté de contribuer dans toute la mesure de leurs moyens et de leur expérience commune à la réussite de cette entreprise.
Dans ce contexte, je voudrais exprimer la satisfaction de la Communauté et de ses Etats membres sur la décision prise lors de la quatre-vingt-deuxième session du Conseil au sujet de la Conférence par laquelle une participation adéquate, appropriée à l'ampleur de ses responsabilités, a été accordée à la Communauté économique européenne.
O. AWOYEMI (Nigeria): The Nigerian delegation endorses the arrangements made so far in preparation for the World Conference on Fisheries Management and Development. The Conference itself is expected to be the climax of the various discussions that have taken place on the challenges posed to fisheries development and management by the recently concluded Third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea. The complexity of the issues involved is borne out by the fact that it has taken about eight years to arrive at the new convention which is yet to be signed by all the United Nations members that participated to the négociations.
It is against this background that the proposed agenda for the Fifteenth Session of the Committee on Fisheries, that is appendix A, and the Conference itself which is in appendix B, should be considered. While agreeing broadly with the key issues identified for the technical phase of the Conference, the agenda should also focus on practical problems of fisheries, management and development, including joint ventures.
It would also be relevant to have an assessment of FAO's comprehensive Programme of Assistance in the development and management of fisheries in the new 200 miles EEZ, otherwise known as the FAO EEZ Programme, which was approved by the FAO Conference in 1981.
The World Conference itself, scheduled for June/July 1984, should endeavour to review existing fisheries policies and programmes, and come up with a concrete recommendation that would enable developing coastal states to derive maximum social and economic benefits from the new legal regime of the oceans.
V. VONGSKUL (Thailand): On behalf of my delegation I have the honour to submit our comments and observations with regard to this agenda item on the Preparations for the World Conference on Fisheries Management and Development.
First, we appreciate this further opportunity for the Council to be informed of the preparations and to offer suggestions. We consider that the draft agendas for both the technical and policy phases of the Conference have incorporated the main recommendations made by the FAO Regional Conferences in 1982.
Secondly, we note with satisfaction that the question of access to fishery resources in exclusive economic zones is on the agenda of the technical phase of the Conference. As one of the fishing nations of the world, Thailand is particularly interested in this subject. We hope that coastal states will endeavour to make full use of fishery resources for the benefit of mankind, with the surplus available shared by other countries that used to fish previously in the waters now under their juridiction. Special treatment should be given to friendly neighbouring countries.
Thirdly, ray delegation welcomes the proposal that consideration be given to the elaboration of a Strategy for Fisheries Management and Development and to agreement on associated action programmes. We consider planning to be a prerequisite to the formulation of fishery development strategies.
In this connection my delegation would like to inform you that a symposium on Fisheries Development and Management in South-east Asia, with special emphasis on development planning, under the umbrella of the South-East Asian Regional Project on Ocean Law Policy and Management will be held in the region in late 1984. This symposium may be considered as a follow-up to the World Conference where specific problems of a regional nature are to be discussed and action formulated and implemented. It is hoped that FAO can extend its cooperation to this project.
Finally, many of the action programmes required in Fisheries Management and Development, particularly training, are long-term issues and require initiative and determination on the part of the developing countries to implement those action programmes, as well as financial support from outside sources. It will therefore be essential for the Secretariat to consult donor agencies, financing institutions, and the governments concerned after the technical phase of the Conference, so as to ensure that the Strategy and the action programme will already have general support before their finalization and the formal adoption of the policy phase of the Conference.
J. TCHICAYA (Congo): La delegation congolaise, qui a pris une part active à la dernière session de la Conference regionale de la FAO pour l'Afrique, souhaite exprimer son appui au projet d'ordre du jour provisoire qui nous est proposé, relatif à la Conférence mondiale de la FAO sur l'aménagement et le développement des pêches. C'est pourquoi nous voudrions féliciter le Secrétariat pour l'excellent document qui nous est soumis. En effet, nous sommes particulièrement heureux de voir figurer dans cet ordre du jour provisoire les principales préoccupations de l'Afrique et autres régions.
A ce sujet, nous appuyons la création, suggérée ici, de deux Commissions pendant cette Conférence. Nous pensons que la réussite de cette Conférence sera un pas de plus vers la sécurité alimentaire dans les pays en développement à déficit alimentaire. Chacun sait que jusqu'à présent les pays en développement ne profitent pas suffisamment de la nouvelle Convention du droit de la mer et ont des difficultés réelles à exploiter tous les avantages liés à cette Convention, notamment la mise en oeuvre du Programme des zones économiques exclusives. Nous espérons ardemment qu'au cours de cette Conférence, des mesures pratiques pour promouvoir la pêche, tant maritime que continentale, seront arrêtées.
A cet égard, nous apprécions l'offre du Gouvernement norvégien d'organiser, en collaboration avec la FAO, un séminaire d'experts internationaux. Nous espérons que cette Conférence ralliera la volonté politique nécessaire pour aider les pays en développement à promouvoir la pêche, et, ici plus qu'ailleurs, le concours et l'assistance des pays développés seront requis dans le strict respect de la souveraineté de chaque pays côtier intéressé.
C. VIDALI CARBAJAL (México): Agradecemos la clara presentación de la Secretaria y el trabajo que realiza ésta para organizar la importante Conferencia Mundial que nos ocupa.
En relación al documento CL 83/7 quisiéramos hacer algunos breves comentarios.
Estamos completamente de acuerdo con la última parte del párrafo 3 en el sentido que la Conferencia
Mundial sobre Ordenación y Desarrollo Pesquero no deberá volver a tratar cuestiones ya zanjadas
en la Tercera Conferencia de las Naciones Unidas sobre Derechos del Mar, ni tampoco intentar establecer acuerdos modelo bilaterales sobre pesca.
Asimismo es importante realizar una actividad de promoción para conseguir la participación activa y la ayuda de organismos financieros o donantes bilaterales y multilaterales para garantizar la ejecución de los programas de acción, como se dice al final del párrafo 9. Y por esto nos preocupa no encontrar referencias a esto ni en el proyecto de programa del Comité de Pesca, como tampoco en el proyecto de programa provisional de la Conferencia Mundial de la FAO sobre Ordenación y Desarrollo Pesquero, por lo cual solicitamos que se abra un capítulo especial sobre este tema, el de financiamiento, tanto en el COFI como en la Conferencia en el capítulo de estrategias y en el de programas.
Aquí, señor Presidente, nos preocupa mucho los comentarios realizados hace un momento por el Observador de la Comunidad Económica Europea hablando a nombre de todos sus Miembros que de antemano llaman a una extraña prudencia que, según nosotros, sólo tiende a limitar el crecimiento y desarrollo de la pesca donde precisamente puede crecer, que es en los países en desarrollo, y que infiere que nuestros países se tienen que limitar a la pesca ribereña o a la acuicultura. Esperamos que esta impresión que nos dejaron las palabras del delegado de la Comunidad Económica Europea puedan disiparse dado que la pesca es parte fundamental del concepto de seguridad alimentaria y que el recurso, explotado adecuadamente, no tiene porqué peligrar.
Apoyamos asimismo los planteamientos de la delegación Argentina en cuanto a que se deben considerar los importantísimos aspectos de capacitación, tan relevantes en cualquier campo pero especialmente en la pesca en los países en desarrollo donde esta actividad no ha sido relevante en general y donde la capacitación jugará un papel importante. Por eso también vemos con beneplácito el Seminario que bajo los auspicios del Gobierno noruego se celebrará próximamente.
Finalmente, quisiéramos que se acelerara la entrega de material de ambos eventos para poder estudiarlo con tiempo y preparar mejor nuestras intervenciones en los mismos. Hasta el momento, inexplicablemente, no hay materiales listos y sí cierto hermetismo en el área de pesca de la FAO que quisiéramos se explicara.
M.D. METELITS (United States of America): The United States delegation wants to congratulate Mr. Carroz and his staff of the Fisheries Department of FAO on the excellent work they have done so far in making preparations for this important Conference. In general my delegation continues to approve the work that is being done for the Conference and the agenda that has been developed. We are satisfied with the preparations that have been carried out so far by the Department of Fisheries including several workshops and expert consultations.
We have listened to the statements made by a number of other delegations in which an interest has been generally expressed and we would like to join in being kept fully informed of the continuing preparations, especially those that would include the opportunity for Member Nation participants to study the various versions of documents that are being prepared for the Conference. More specifically, my delegation notes that in the document before us the structure of the second phase of the Conference utilizes two Commission and Plenary sessions as a way of getting through the business at hand.
This leads to a potential question because the organization of the first phase does not utilize these mechanisms, though the first phase does have a very full agenda which includes the normal business of the Committee on Fisheries.
Another question that arises from this document is the use of the phrase "full use of fish resources" in the agenda. This is item III.2 of the second phase of the Conference; it is in Appendix B of the document before us. The reason for this question is simply because we believe the customary phrase is "optimum utilization".
At any rate, we want to conclude on a positive note by again thanking the Secretariat and we hope that the good work continues apace.
R. SALLERY (Canada): I too would like to thank Mr. Carroz for his very useful and informative presentation and also the Secretariat for their documentation which we have received so far. We must say we are encouraged by the preparations for the World Fisheries Conference to date. The suggested agenda for this Conference is obviously a reflection of a very wide range of interests from those countries who were solicited for inputs. We were not among that group but I am happy to say we can certainly agree to the agenda as envisaged so far.
We support the theme of the Conference on the importance of nutrition and of food security. Equal emphasis must also be given to food diversity in the nutritional sector. We are willing to participate in the preparatory work required to ensure that the Conference can meet expectations. We remain convinced that the underlying theme has to be the proper management and use of fish resources and we consider that a sound scientific basis is fundamental to many of the topics addressed by the agenda items.
There is, however, no specific reference to science other than under number 4 (h) concerning international collaboration. We wish to point out that this scientific basis is essential if fisheries resources are to be managed so as to ensure the success and the sustainability of the development initiatives. In this regard Canada believes the principles of management should reflect the need for recognition of the particular problems associated with stocks subject to more than one jurisdiction, whether such stocks are shared between coastal states, overlap between areas of national and international jurisdiction or are highly migratory stock. It is similar to our position on the immunity of international institutions.
The Conference may be expected to have to face the sensitive choice of whether it is addressing, under agenda item 4 (b) Principles and Techniques of Fisheries Management, strictly the regulation of fisheries, or whether the range of options to governments and intervening in the exploitation of a resource base and the implications for human skills, technology, etc., is to be considered. We, of course, support a broader interpretation.
We note in document CL 83/7, under agenda item 5, that COFI will receive a tentative general framework for the development of the strategy for fisheries management and for development of the specific assessment for actions programme. This framework is to be elaborated in the light of the discussion at the Committee and on further consultations with Member Nations and international organizations in the interval between the two phases of the Conference. Now my delegation believes that this is a logical sequence and would endorse the concept of inter-sessional consultations either through working groups or by correspondence. That would involve both developed and, of course, developing Member Nations. We consider that such consultation will facilitate greatly both the developing process and the debate within the policy phase towards adoption of the strategy action programme.
Finally we believe that the statement of principles that will come from the world conference must not be developed in isolation by the FAO. Governments should be consulted by the end of the technical phase in October 1983 and the beginning of the policy phase in June 1984 in order to facilitate the drafting of both the statement of principles and the action plan in the Conference at an open forum and we believe this can be achieved either through the form of a consultative group or through circulation of documents and papers to governments for their comments.
J. BELGRAVE (New Zealand): Just briefly could I on behalf of my delegation welcome your presence in the chair to guard our discussions.
On behalf of the New Zealand delegation could I report our sincere thanks to Mr. Carroz for very much a thoughtful and logical introduction to this agenda item. I think his statement does illustrate the very thorough approach which the Secretariat is adopting to preparations for the World Conference on Fisheries Development and Management and in fact, that this is one of the last items on our agenda does not, of course, denégrate its importance.
New Zealand is not by any definition one of the world's large or important fishing nations. However, we do have one of the world's largest exclusive economic zones and in our attempt to develop deep water fishery in the economic zone and what is proving to be our complex inshore fisheries. We have had to try to come up with some of the answers to some of the issues which appear on the draft agenda for both the technical and policy phases for the World Fisheries Conference. New Zealand took part in two of the recent preparatory consultations mentioned by Mr. Carroz. One was the expert consultation on the regulations of fishing efforts, the other the expert consultation on conditions for access to the fish resources of the exclusive economic zone and perhaps through these two meetings my country has been able to make some small contribution to what is a large amount of preparatory work for the forthcoming Conference.
Before commenting on the two draft agendas contained in document CL 83/7 my delegation would like to take up one or two of the points of principle made by Mr. Carroz and to mention very briefly New Zealand's own recent experiences. First we have found that in developing New Zealand's involvement in deep water of our own EEZ we have had to work closely with the distant water fishing nations that fished traditionally in the waters now included in our EEZ. We have neither the capital nor the fishery techniques, nor the large vessels which would have enabled us to sail out-into the deep water and catch the prime species of fish which are found there. Even today New Zealand still needs to charter deep-water vessels from distant water nations and of course we remain dependent on some distant water nations for markets for some deep-water fish caught by New Zealand or vessels chartered to New Zealand companies.
Secondly the fish resources both in New Zealand EEZ's, and particularly in our inshore fisheries, are under restraint, quite severe restraint, in some cases because of the pressure on them. This is the situation that New Zealand probably shares with many coastal states. Therefore it seems to us that the time is about right for FAO to be considering this whole question of fisheries management strategy and development.
Turning briefly to the draft agendas contained in documents CL 83/7 now before us, New Zealand is able to give them both its general support. Appendix A, the technical supplementary phase, does seem to us to emphasize the two different points of emphasis, namely the deep-water fisheries and inshore fisheries. The problems facing both are, in New Zealand's view, different and will no doubt have different priorities for different developing countries. We feel also that other items on the agenda will also be of vital concern to developing countries. For example, international trade in fish and fishery products and international collaboration in research, management and development.
As far as Appendix B, the policy phase, New Zealand gives general support to the topics contained therein. They are, we feel, germaine to the four areas identified by Mr. Carroz in his introduction, namely technical assistance, investment, training and trade. We agree with the Secretariat, the delegations to the technical phase of the Conference should be made up of members who should be
able to contribute in some detail to the individual items which this phase will consider. Such participation should, we hope, enable the ground to be well prepared for the conference policy phase. For the policy phase itself my delegation takes careful note of the sort of representation seen as desirable by the Secretariat and will keep this and the results of the technical phase very much in mind, when the time of the policy phase draws closer.
My delegation reiterates its compliments to the Secretariat for the fairness of the preparation taken thus far. We look forward to be able to participate actively in both phases of what we are sure will be a successful conference.
A. MARTOSUWIRYO (Indonesia): I would like to thank Mr. Carroz for his introduction. On behalf of the Indonesian delegation I wish to express appreciation for the preparation which the Secretariat has been making towards the holding of the World Conference on Fisheries Management and Development in the coming year. Words of appreciation should be addressed to the governments of Costa Rica and France which have participated actively in the preparations for the World
Conference.My delegation is satisfied to note that the Fifteenth Session of the Committee on Fisheries to be held in October this year will be referred to as the technical phase of the World Conference which is intended to serve as a forum for a representative at the high policy-making level. Indonesia is of the view that the expanded fifteeth session of the Committee on Fisheries will have to play an important role in the preparatory work because the Committee will deal with technical and policy matters relating to fisheries covering a wide range of activities.
My delegation expresses the hope that the Committee on Fisheries at its next session will prove to be more fruitful and arrive at the conclusions for the consideration by the World Conference. In light of the foregoing it is essential that the session at the COFI should be guided by an able chairman who is at the same time conversant on all matters relating to fisheries.
With regard to the suggestion contained in paragraph 7, making suggestion of the establishment of two commissions, the Indonesian delegation can support it.
As regards the draft agenda as contained in Appendix A and B of the document, we believe that this reflects the suggestions made by the 1982 Regional Conference and by a number of FAO regional fisheries bodies and covers many items which are indispensable to developing fisheries. Hence the Indonesian delegation can give its endorsement.
S. GOTO (Japan): First of all I would like to thank Mr. Carroz for his important presentation on the preparation of the World Fisheries Conference. We would also like to thank the FAO Secretariat for their efforts in having held a series of preparatory meetings as well as consultations with governments and international organizations in preparation for the Conference. We are also very appreciative of the efforts that FAO has put forth in strengthening its role in the management and development of fisheries.
My delegation believes that the taking place of this Conference is very timely and we expect that it will contribute to furthering an optimum utilization of the marine resources, and subsequently improve the nutritional level by increasing the supply of protein for the people of the developing countries.
Japan, as one of the major fishing nations, has a long history of fishery development which includes coastal, off-shore and deep water fisheries as well as aquaculture and fresh water fisheries; and therefore, we feel that Japan's experience might be useful in the deliberation of the Conference.
My delegation feels that the draft provisional agenda for both the technical phase and the policy phase of the Conference has been very well formulated. We can generally agree with the agenda.
In regards to the "Strategy for Fisheries Management and Development", my delegation would like to stress the importance of the principle of the rational utilization of the fishery resources which was agreed upon in the Law of the Sea Convention. As a result of the enactment of the Exclusive Economic Zone in many coastal countries, the Japanese deep sea fisheries have experienced a drastic decline in their catch from 4 million tons to 2 million tons.
It is our greatest concern that the decreased portion of the deep water fisheries' catch might not be fully utilized by the fisheries of the coastal countries. Therefore, it is desirable that the coastal countries which have a surplus in fishery resources, allow access to distant water fleets to fish within the Exclusive Economic Zone by asking for a reasonable fishing fee which then can be utilized for the development of coastal fisheries in these countries.
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In regards to the Programme for Fisheries Management and Development, four areas of action have been proposed: technical assistance, investment, training and trade.
As for the technical assistance, Japan has been extending its assistance to the developing countries by sending experts as well as granting research vessels, building research centres, etc. Our assistance in this area has been increasing substantially every year even though the growth of our national budget has been stagnating and even decreasing in nominal terms.
Investment is also important and indispensable to the development of fisheries in the developing countries. A joint-venture activity is one of the most powerful means to draw investments; however, we should pay due consideration to the fact that the success of the joint venture, totally depends on the economic feasibility of the activity.
My country fully recognizes the importance of training. Our assistance in this field includes the acceptance of trainees to Japan as well as the building of training centres in the developing countries. Japan is also a member of the Southeast Asian Fisheries Development Centre, one of whose major objectives is training.
We fully recognize also the importance of trade in the development of fisheries. However, we should be aware of the fact that the international market price of fish and fishery products is extremely precarious. Therefore my delegation feels that it may be a more realistic approach for developing countries to give first priority to fishery production for domestic demand rather than to place too much emphasis on export oriented fisheries.
Finally, we would like once again to express our appreciation to FAO for its activities in the field of fisheries and we hope that it will continue to be further strengthened.
S.A. MAHMOOD (Bangladesh): I shall speak on the agenda items, which have been very well thought out, but I would like to suggest the inclusion of an item on conservation. Conservation of both coastal inland and fisheries resources possibly should be one of the. issued requiring attention, not only national programmes, but also cooperation at regional, sub-regional and at times global levels would be necessary in this respect as an insurance against possible over-exploitation. Conservation constitutes good management but from some of our experiences, I feel that a special examination of the same may be of help.
Sra. Doña G. SOTO CARRERO (Cuba): La delegación de Cuba será sumamente breve. Mi delegación se une a los demás países que han felicitado a la Secretaría por los preparativos de la Conferencia Mundial de Pesca.
La idea de que el COFI acoja la fase tecnica de la misma nos Darece totalmente adecuada.
Asimismo, quisiéramos expresar nuestra satisfacción porque las sugerencias que fueron expresadas en nuestras conferencias regionales, en 1982, han sido perfectamente recogidas en la preparación de la agenda de la Conferencia. Sin embargo, el aspecto del financiamiento que ha planteado el distinguido delegado de México nos parece también ser un tema necesario de ser analizado por esta Conferencia en sus dos fases. Quisiera también apoyar la observación hecha por el distinguido delegado de Argentina y que ha sido apoyada por otras delegaciones, a fin de que los documentos, tanto de la fase técnica como de la Conferencia en sí, puedan llegar con el tiempo suficiente a nuestras capitales, a fin de que puedan ser debidamente analizadas por los técnicos competentes. En nuestro país ya se ha creado un Grupo de Trabajo en el Ministerio de Industria Pesquera para la preparación de la participación de Cuba en esta importante Conferencia. Este Grupo espera tener lo más pronto posible el material adecuado para hacer los análisis correspondientes.
A.H. EL-SARKI (Egypt) (Original language Arabic): The delegation of Egypt is pleased to participate in the work of this World Conference on Fisheries Management and Development because Egypt believes that fishery resources can be a good substitute to animal protein.
My delegation has already participated in the discussions which were held in preparation for this world conference and we would like to endorse what already has been said on the proposed agenda. We should underline our interest in training for people working in fisheries. We also agree that
fish and nutrition should be included in its agenda. We also approve the participation of nongovernmental agencies in this conference. We have proposed that there should be participation of publishing houses and a meeting of firms producing fisheries equipment in a fair to be organized simultaneously.
We should also like to express our thanks to the Norwegian Government for hosting the seminar on fish and nutrition next month as a contribution in the preparatory work of this conference.
MOHD YASIN bin MOH SALLEH (Malaysia): My delegation's intervention on this item of the agenda will be a brief one because we participated actively in the FAO Regional Conference for Asia and the Pacific held in Djarkata in June 1982 and also in the FAO Indian Pacific Fisheries Commission Conference held in Bali in 1982. At these two conferences the subject of the World Conference on Fisheries Management and Development had been placed on the agenda.
The proposal in Appendix A of document CL 83/7 is in accordance with the recommendations of the two conferences. Malaysia therefore supports the draft provisional agenda as proposed.
The most important agenda item will be the formulation of appropriate strategies and action programmes to achieve the optimum utilization of fishery resources of each member country, especially the developing member countries like Malaysia from the economic, social and nutritional points of view. The action programmes expected to result from the Conference should enable developing member countries like Malaysia to increase their respective national capability in terms of trained personnel competent to manage and develop their respective fisheries consistent with the objectives mentioned earlier. Therefore Malaysia would like to stress and reiterate, among other things, the need for the proposed Conference to give priority attention to (1) the role of FAO regional and sub-regional fishery bodies and the technical support for these bodies, and within the South China Sea sub-Region Malaysia would like to see positive technical support given to the Committee for the Development and Management of Fisheries in the South China Sea to benefit the member countries of the region; (2) special problems of small-scale fisheries; (3) aquaculture; (4) promotion of cooperation in the fishery sector between developed and developing countries and among developing countries; (5) training programmes based on carefully assessed needs of developing member countries.
On Appendix B, Malaysia strongly supports the inclusion of agenda item 3 on Strategies, in particular sub-items 3 and 4. On agenda item 4 on Programmes Malaysia fully endorses its inclusion and hopes the discussion on sub-items 1, 2, 3 and 4 will result in definite and conclusive work programmes for the future.
J.L. MESEGUER SANCHEZ (España): Permítame, en primer lugar, señor Presidente felicitar al Director General de la FAO y a la Secretaría General de la Conferencia Mundial sobre Ordenación y Desarrollo Pesqueros por la elaboración del documento CL 83/7, que constituye una buena base de discusión inicial de los temas sometidos a examen de la Conferencia.
La delegación española comparte plenamente la recomendación del Consejo en su sesión anterior de no volver a tratar cuestiones zanjadas en la Tercera Conferencia de las Naciones Unidas sobre Derechos del Mar, aunque pretendan encubrirlas bajo aspectos y zonas de conservación de recursos vivos del mar que evolucionan dentro y fuera de las jurisdicciones nacionales.
No obstante, para mi delegación la Conferencia deberá poner especial énfasis en el tema de la cooperación entre países en desarrollo y países industrializados en materia pesquera, como recogió en su día la Resolución 4/79 de la 20° Conferencia de la FAO.
Esta cooperación tendría como fin, a la vez, favorecer la relación nacional, ordenación, y óptima utilización de los recursos vivos del mar, así como potenciar el desarrollo ordenador del sector pesquero de los países en desarrollo mediante la adecuada y gradual transferencia de tecnología pesquera. Transferencia que puede efectuarse de manera directa entre gobiernos o a través de la constitución de empresas pesqueras conjuntas en la amplia gama de variedades que estos Acuerdos ofrecen.
Otro aspecto importante del programa provisional es el relativo al comercio internacional del pescado y productos pesqueros. Aunque la Secretaría General al preparar los documentos correspondientes debería tener en cuenta la labor de las Organizaciones especializadas en esta materia tales como el CAC y la OCDE, no deberá olvidar que la consagración de las zonas económicas exclusivas de 200 millas, modificó en un principio el tradicional equilibrio entre la libertad de pesca y la libertad de mercado.
Hoy de nuevo la tendencia internacional se orienta en el sentido de alcanzar el necesario equilibrio entre todos los intereses en presencia. En la relación pesca-mercado la apertura de esto debe estar condicionada a las posibilidades reales de acceso a las pesquerías, y en modo alguno pueda pretend derse tal equilibrio formulando el principio de manera inversa.
Por supuesto la delegación española se está refiriendo a relaciones entre países industrializados y a que las relaciones entre éstos y los países en desarrollo, deben prevalecer siempre al margen de los criterios expuestos, las consideraciones de justicia distributiva internacional en el marco del nuevo Orden Económico Internacional.
En relación con el punto cinco del proyecto del programa provisional, la delegación española estima muy oportuna su inclusión en la fase preparatoria, pues ha de permitir conocer la línea maestra de la futura estrategia a consagrar por la Conferencia. Sin embargo, para que la Conferencia en su fase normativa pueda adoptar decisiones adecuadas a los fines perseguidos, la FAO debería mantener consultas con los países interesados y con las Organizaciones Internacionales especializadas en el intervalo entre las dos fases de la Conferencia. De acordarse estas consultas mi país estaría dispuesto a intervenir activamente en las mismas.
También en este punto para elaborar los programas de acción específicos, la FAO debería tener en cuenta los Programas ya existentes a nivel bilateral o multilateral para evitar duplicidades.
Por ultimo, señor Presidente, en el punto seis, sobre la labor de la FAO en materia de pesca, se incluye un aspecto que interesa en gran manera a la administración pesquera española. Me refiero al proyecto del Plan de Acción Global FAO/PNUD para la conservación, ordenación y utilización de mamíferos marinos. En este sentido el interés no es sólo ni mucho menos debido a la importancia que España otorga a la protección y racional utilización de los recursos vivos renovables, sino porque la notable implicación de dichos recursos tienen en un contexto análisis múltiples específicos.
En efecto España, como país pesquero que cuenta con importante población de mamíferos marinos en sus zonas económicas exclusivas, no puede dejar de otorgar una importancia capital al estudio de la situación y dinámica de dichas poblaciones, cuya interrelación en los medios costeros, especialmente importantes para nuestras flotas pesqueras. Es evidente por ello, y por la importancia que el mundo otorga a la protección de estas especies, que España considera que sin merma de la competencia que tiene atribuida la Comisión Ballenera Internacional, al margen de la atención que vienen produciendo ultimamente en el seno de la misma, la FAO puede y debe aportar una visión científica y pondrá ésta sobre el mejor y más racional método de gestión de estos importantes recursos en beneficio de la generación presente y de las futuras.
Mrs. M. PIOTROWSKA (Poland): Our delegation would like to thank the Department of Fisheries of FAO for the excellent documentation prepared and appreciate the efforts made so far. Polish specialists participated in preparing materials in consultations for the following group: experts consultation on regulation of fishing effort, ad hoc working group on fishery resources at the Patagonian Shelf, expert consultation on the conditions of access to the fishing resources of EEZ.
The Polish representative also participated in preparing the document within expert consultation for peaceful fisheries development as one of twelve invited experts. He contributed to the document on strategy and policy for fisheries development which will be presented at the October session of the Committee on Fisheries. We attach great importance to the nearest session of COFI, which will also be the first-stage technical phase of the FAO World Conference on Fisheries Management and Development.
We are preparing for this Conference two elaborations on the subject which seems to us the most important. The first concerns optimal use of resources of Economic Zones and open seas in the light of Resolutions of the Third Sea Conference. It will deal with problems connected with the proper use of resources to avoid waste, preparing adequate suggestions, allowing favourable bi- and multilateral forms of cooperation, presenting our achievements in estimating fish resources in different world regions and making these available for the coastal countries.
The second elaboration will deal with the problem of training the staff of countries which develop their national fisheries and the possible share of Poland in this training.
J.E. CARROZ (Sous-Directeur general, Secrétaire general, Conférence mondiale sur 1 aménagement et le développement des pêches) : En raison de l'heure tardive, je serai aussi bref que possible. Tout d'abord au nom du Directeur général, j'aimerais remercier tous les membres du Conseil qui sont intervenus et le représentant de la CEE pour leurs encouragements et pour leurs suggestions constructives sur les projets d'ordre du jour des deux phases de la Conférence, sur la structure de la Conférence et surtout sur la nécessité de continuer les consultations avec les gouvernements sur les préparatifs de la Conférence.
J'ai naturellement noté les références nombreuses qui ont été faites à ce propos à la formulation de la stratégie pour le développement et l'aménagement des pêches et également pour l'élaboration des programmes d'action spécifiques. Tous ces points seront naturellement reflétés dans le projet de rapport qui vous sera soumis.
J'aimerais répondre à un certain nombre de questions posées au cours des interventions. Tout d'abord, Mme la déléguée de la Norvège a soulevé deux points. Le premier concerne le rôle des pêches intérieures et de l'aquaculture dans la seconde phase, la phase de politique générale de la Conférence. Je voudrais la rassurer et lui dire que la pêche dans les eaux intérieures et l'aquaculture seront en effet couvertes. Les projets d'ordre du jour sont en fait très schématiques et c'est seulement, je crois, quand vous recevrez très prochainement ces projets d'ordre du jour annotés que vous vous rendrez compte de la portée exacte de chacun des points dans les projets d'ordre du jour.
Le second point soulevé par Mme Ravn concerne le rôle du poisson dans l'alimentation. Comme elle-même l'a fait remarquer ce sera un des thèmes majeurs dont traitera le Directeur général dans son allocution d'ouverture au mois d'octobre et là également j'aimerais lui assurer que le rôle du poisson dans l'alimentation, dans l'autosuffisance alimentaire nationale et sa contribution possible a la sécurité alimentaire seront couverts également sous d'autres points de l'ordre du jour.
Par ailleurs, j'aimerais rassurer les représentants de la Colombie et du Nigeria en leur disant qu'au mois d'octobre, sous le point 6 de l'ordre du jour, ils recevront un rapport détaillé sur les progrès accomplis dans le programme d'aide aux pays en développement pour l'exploitation et l'aménagement de leurs ressources dans les zones économiques exclusives.
Le représentant du Mexique a posé deux questions et je vais répondre à la première laissant le problème de la documentation comme dernière remarque. Son premier point concerne le financement. J'ai bien dit, dans ma présentation liminaire, que l'intention n'est pas, à la Conférence, d'inviter les Etats à contribuer à un fonds général de développement des pêches qui serait semblable, disons, au fonds sur l'environnement, au fonds sur la science et la technologie. En revanche, il est évident que les programmes d'action spécifiques, assistance technique, commerce, entraînement, formation professionnelle seront évidemment financés et les projets qui vous seront soumis à propos de ces programmes d'action comporteront naturellement également les propositions que nous ferons pour le financement de ces programmes spécifiques.
Le représentant des Etats-Unis a fait des remarques importantes sur la structure des discussions dans la phase technique de la Conférence, c'est-à-dire à la quinzième session du Comité des pêches. Là, pour des raisons évidentes d'économie financière, il nous a paru difficile d'avoir des réunions concomitantes de comités, de commissions et de sous-comités comme on le prévoit pour la phase de politique générale, de sorte qu'en principe les discussions auront lieu dans le cadre de réunions plénières du début à la fin de la session, mais ceci pose évidemment le problème de l'organisation et de l'orientation à donner aux discussions. C'est évidemment un problème auquel nous réfléchissons sérieusement.
J'ai également pris bonne note de la remarque faite à propos de la terminologie utilisée dans le projet d'ordre du jour de la phase de politique générale et nous emploierons l'expression "utilisation optimale des ressources".
Le représentant du Canada nous a fait un nombre de remarques importantes. J'aimerais me référer spécialement à celle qu'il a faite sur le rôle qu'on accordera à la science dans les discussions au mois d'octobre. Là aussi, lorsqu'il verra le projet d'ordre du jour annoté de la phase technique et particulièrement les points de politique nationale traitant des aspects techniques de l'aménagement, je pense qu'il sera rassuré et qu'il verra que de nombreux aspects techniques et scientifiques seront couverts.
Je pourrais faire la même remarque au représentant du Bangladesh en ce qui concerne les problèmes de conservation qui, nous l'espérons, seront également couverts d'une manière adéquate.
De nombreux représentants et tout particulièrement le représentant du Mexique ont posé la question de la documentation. Le Directeur général a donné pour instruction de la limiter au maximum et nous envisageons un document de travail d'une moyenne de 10 pages pour chaque point ou sous-point de l'ordre du jour. La plupart de ces documents de travail sont en train d'être finalisés mais nous ne pouvions pas les mettre au point et les diffuser avant les discussions que vous avez eues aujourd'hui au Conseil, de sorte que c'est notre tâche dans les prochains jours, dans les prochaines semaines de mettre ces documents au point et de vous les faire parvenir aussitôt que possible.
CHAIRMAN (Original language Arabic): At the end of our discussion on this item I would like to thank Mr. Carroz for the efforts he has engaged in preparing for the World Conference on Fisheries Management and Development. I have noticed that the majority if not all the delegates accept the proposed draft agenda for both the technical and the policy phases. Obviously the Secretariat will take into due account all the remarks made in order to ensure they are properly reflected in the draft agenda which will be subsequently submitted.
C. VIDALI CARBAJAL (México): Realmente apreciamos las explicaciones que nos dio el Secretario de la Conferencia, pero la sugerencia que hicimos concretamente sobre que se incluyera el aspecto de finan-ciamiento es precisamente para que explícitamente se contemple éste en los trabajos del Comité de Pesca y de la Conferencia, dado que no estamos planteando de ninguna manera la creación de un fondo, sino que los aspectos financieros, que no vemos incluidos en ninguna parte de los programas, se consideren en la estrategia y programas concretos de acción que se están planteando; es una solicitud que pensamos fue apoyada por otros Estados y creemos que es importante que se presente explícitamente.
Por otra parte, también quisiéramos señalar que no estamos de acuerdo con el planteamiento de la distinguida delegación de Japón en el sentido de limitar a los países en vias de desarrollo a sus mercados internos y negarnos, por una dudosa teoría de ventajas comparativas, el acceso a la pesca comercial y a la pesca de exportación.
CHAIRMAN (Original language Arabic): I thank the representative of Mexico and I do think that Mr. Carroz will take a due account of all these remarks. As I said, we now turn to item 20 on our agenda.
- Ninth World Forestry Congress, 1984
Neuvième Congrès forestier mondial, 1984
Noveno Congreso Forestal Mundial, 1984
M.A. FLORES RODAS (Subdirector General, Departamento de Montes): En su octagésima sesión en noviembre de 1981 el Consejo tomó nota de que los Gobiernos de India, México y Filipinas ofrecían hospedar el Noveno Congreso Forestal Mundial.
Los tres países tienen una grande y honrosa historia forestal, una gran variedad de ambientes ecológicos y socioeconómicos y tienen la capacidad para ofrecer las facilidades y los recursos necesarios para mantener los niveles de calidad de los congresos previos.
El Consejo sugirió que los ministros de los países oferentes se consultaran entre sí en el lapso de la 21° sesión de la Conferencia de la FAO con el objetivo de arribar a un acuerdo. Tales consultas se llevaron a cabo y los tres ministros sometieron las siguientes propuestas a la consideración del Consejo en su 81° sesión, también en noviembre de 1981.
Las propuestas fueron las siguientes: a) Que bajo el principio de rotación, el Noveno Congreso Forestal Mundial se llevara a cabo " en México en 1984, y b) que cuando oportunamente el Consejo considere, las sedes de los congresos X y XI, los otros dos países, India y Filipinas, fueren considerados con prioridad.
En vista de la anterior propuesta el Consejo estuvo de acuerdo en seleccionar a México como sede del Noveno Congreso Forestal Mundial a llevarse a cabo en 1984. El presente tema también fue discutido durante la sexta reunión del Comité de Montes, COFO, en mayo de 1982, en donde el delegado de México expresó la gratitud de su país por haber sido seleccionado como anfitrión del Congreso, e informó al Comité de las acciones tomadas para su organización.
Durante esta sesión del COFO México propuso la tercera semana del mes de octubre de 1984 y a la ciudad de México como el tiempo y lugar apropiados para llevar a cabo dicho congreso; pero no excluyó cualquier otra sugerencia al respecto.
El delegado de México también mencionó varios posibles temas para el congreso y solicitó las sugerencias de otros a los demás delegados presentes.
Estado actual: Ya el Gobierno de México ha solicitado formalmente a la FAO su asistencia en la organización del Congreso y tengo el placer de informar al Consejo de que tal negociación ha finalizado con buen suceso.
Sin embargo, debido a circunstancias especiales y en consideración a la necesidad de organizar un congreso mundial que refleje la calidad de los anteriores, el Gobierno de México contempla la necesidad de extender el período de celebración al primer semestre de 1985, después de hacer todos los esfuerzos para que tal congreso se lleve a cabo a finales de 1984.
Señor Presidente, yo quisiera rogarle, si no tiene inconveniente, dé la palabra al distinguido delegado de México para alguna información ulterior a la mía.
J. VERRUETE FUENTES (México): Con su beneplácito, señor Presidente, tomo la palabra para ampliar un poco más la intervención del doctor Flores Rodas.
Efectivamente, desde el año 1981, cuando este honorable Consejo otorgo a México la sede del Noveno Congreso Forestal Mundial, el Gobierno Mexicano inicio formalmente los trabajos de organización de este Congreso.
En julio de 1982 el entonces Presidente de México publicó un decreto para integrar el Comité organizador de este evento. Posteriormente, en este mismo año 1983 el actual Presidente de la República ratificó ese decreto y ordenó seguir con los trabajos preparatorios del Congreso, que para esta fecha incluyen ya los siguientes: La elaboración detallada del presupuesto de ingresos para el Congreso; la ubicación de las sedes probables del acto en la ciudad de México; la elaboración del temario para las discusiones plenarias y paneles; la creación de la estructura administrativa y del personal necesario para llevar adelante los trabajos del propio congreso; el diseño del logotipo o emblema del evento; la ubicación de las áreas forestales importantes por visitar en México para los viajes pre y post congreso, así como la extensión hacia países vecinos con importancia forestal; asimismo el programa cultural y social del evento.
Finalmente, estamos aquí esta semana para ultimar los detalles del Acuerdo de Asistencia Técnica que firma el país sede con FAO, aspecto que prácticamente culminamos ayer con el doctor Flores Rodas. Esto significa que al endosar el acuerdo del señor Director General de la FAO se violentaron los preparativos del Congreso por contar ya con un Secretario General asociado que aporta FAO y que une y coordina nuestro Comité organizador con todo el cuerpo técnico forestal de la Organización.
Sin embargo, honorables delegados, quiero hacer notar que México tuvo sólo hace siete meses su cambio tradicional de Gobierno, lo cual de alguna manera al cambiar los encargados de las altas responsabilidades de la Administración pública afectó transitoriamente los tiempos previstos en la programación de trabajos de preparación del Congreso. Además, por esta misma época se agudizó en nuestro caso la crisis financiera que afecta desde hace tiempo a la economía mundial y a la mayoría de los países del mundo. Esto hizo que ambas situaciones nos retrasaran parcialmente los preparativos del Congreso. Afortunadamente, si bien la crisis financiera persiste, no afectará en nada a los planes para la celebración del congreso ya que es un compromiso de México con el mundo; pero sí, como lo mencionó el doctor Flores Rodas, por estas situaciones nos vemos obligados probablemente a realizar el Congreso la primera mitad del año 1985, aunque haremos lo imposible para que se realice en la fecha convenida de noviembre de 1984.
Concretamente, señor Presidente, señores delegados, México ratifica aquí su compromiso de realizar el Noveno Congreso Mundial Forestal, anticipando sus excusas por algunos pequeños problemas que pudieran surgir y por los inconvenientes que también pudiéramos causar a algunos países miembros de FAO, de quienes solicitamos su generosidad para aceptar nuestras excusas.
Por ser la realización de este Noveno Congreso un alto compromiso donde, afortunadamente, contamos con la importante colaboración y apoyo de FAO queremos dar a ustedes la garantía y la seguridad de que este evento tendrá el éxito que todos deseamos, como ha sucedido en los cuatro últimos congresos mundiales forestales celebrados en Washington en 1960, en Madrid (España) en 1966, en Buenos Aires (Argentina) en 1972 y en Yakarta (Indonesia) en 1978. Por ello me es grato decir a ustedes que esperamos en México con los brazos abiertos a la mayoría de los colegas forestales de todo el mundo.
CHAIRMAN (Original language Arabic): Thank you very much, distinguished delegate of Mexico, for the information that you have just provided to us. This is all linked with the Ninth World Forestry Congress.
I would like to inform you that this has been put on our agenda for information and not for discussion. However, if anybody has any comments to make or would like to say anything at this juncture, the Chair will be quite prepared to hear your comments.
I would like to thank Mr. Flores Rodas and we now go on to Item 17 of the agenda, the Revised Calendar of 1982/83 Sessions of the Council and Those Bodies which Report to the Council. This is document CL 83/8.
LE SECRETAIRE GENERAL: Il s'agit simplement de donner un caractère final au calendrier provisoire que vous avez approuvé au cours de votre dernière session en novembre 1982. Le calendrier, tel qu'il est envisagé, se trouve à la page 2 du document soumis. Il n'y a pas eu de modifications ni de changements de dates depuis votre dernière réunion.
CHAIRMAN (Original language Arabic): Are there any comments? Apparently not, so the Revised Calendar has been approved and after Item 17 we now come to Item 19.
LE SECRETAIRE GENERAL: La date du prochain Conseil est automatiquement fixée, maintenant que vous avez approuvé le calendrier révisé. Cette date est donc du 1er au 3 novembre 1983, c'est-à-dire deux jours avant l'ouverture de la Conférence. Le lieu naturellement est Rome.
CHAIRMAN (Original language Arabic): Thank you very much, Mr. Sylla. Are there any comments on this? Apparently not. That means that we have finished discussion on the Agenda items, including Item 19. All that remains to be done now is for the Council to adopt its Report and, as the Independent Chairman of the Council has already said, that will be done tomorrow.
I would like to thank you all for your help and I now declare the meeting closed.
The meeting rose at 18.45 hours
La séance est levée a 18 h 45
Se levanta la sesión a las 18.45 horas
