- Composition of the Programme Committee and Finance Committee
- Composition du Comité du programme et du Comité financier
- Composicion del Comité del Programa y del Comité de Finanzas
CHAIRMAN: We now resume our discussion on Item 17 which we started last Saturday but before I give the floor to any delegation I would like to summarize what took place last Saturday.
From the discussions on Saturday it would seem that the very great majority of delegations have expressed their support for the Council recommendations contained in Appendix A of document C 77/LIM/2. I would ask delegates to refer to those documents since I intend to endorse the recommendations in paragraph 237 of the extract from the Council report. First of all it seems that all delegations which spoke on Saturday support the recommendation contained in paragraph 237 (a) (b) (e) and (f), These paragraphs relate to having governmental representation on both committees, increasing the Programóle Committee to eleven, the election of a Chairman based on personalme rit and the payment of costs of travel and per diem of representatives.
To the best of my recollection there was a consensus on these items. However, a number of delegations have not had an opportunity to state their views and some delegations, including the Nordic countries, expressly reserved their position. I hope that my summary is accurate so far.
Secondly, there are still certain issues open arising out of the Council recommendations. Some delega-tions have spoken in favour of increasing the membership of the Finance Committee to eleven but from the general assessment of the situation I believe the consensus is to retain the membership to nine, although I must admit that some members spoke in favour of the increase from nine to eleven.
There was also a difference of views on the Council recommendation that there should be no alternates on either committee. A number of delegations questioned the reasons for abolition of the provision regarding alternates.The other recommendation on which several comments have been made relate to the CCLM proposal for by-elections and the proposed requirements of personal qualifications for members of the two committees.Several delegations stressed the need to ensure the prerogative of Member Nations to appoint substitutes for their designated representative.
If we agree that the main recommendations to the Council are accepted, except on one or two issues I have just mentioned, and especially the question of the substitute, I would request that we confine our discussion to that particular issue. Since we have the whole of the afternoon to discuss this particular issue I think that we can have time to take other matters at the conclusion of our discussion on this item, so I would ask you to include in your agenda the following items:that is, (a) authentic Chinese text of the FAO Constitution;(b) the status and use of languages in FAO; the relevant documents are C 77/LIM/13 and C 77/LIM/13-Sup. 1, Rev.1 and C 77/LIM/33.This is on the assumption that we conclude our deliberations on the item now in front of us.
L. LA CORTE (Venezuela):Deseamos ser breves, de acuerdo con sus recomendaciones, señor Presidente, para aprovechar el tiempo de que disponemos.
Sobre el punto que está sometido a discusión, nos manifestamos de acuerdo con que los componentes miem bros de los Comités del Programa y del de Finanzas deben ser representantes de los Estados Miembros, y no como ha venido sucediendo hasta ahora que actuaban con carácter personal.
Consideramos, además, que estos miembros deben tener por supuesto unos amplios conocimientos en las materias en las cuales van a intervenir y, por tanto, que deben participar con el respaldo de sus Gobiernos, con el curriculum vitae de cada uno de ellos para asegurarse de los conocimientos de los mismos.
Aprobamos también que se eleve a once el número de miembros del Comité del Programa y a nueve los del Comité de Finanzas, aun cuando nosotros preferiríamos que el número de miembros del Comité de Finanzas fuera también de once y no de nueve. No hacemos hincapié en esto. Es una preferencia de nuestro país y solo en este sentido lo exponemos.
Respecto de los demás puntos, he de decir que estamos de acuerdo en que todos los miembros de estos Comités deben realmente representar el modo de pensar de la generalidad de los Miembros de la FAO y no solamente el de sus países. Con esto queremos manifestar que estamos en oposición de quienes creen que por el hecho de que los miembros de los Comités sean representantes de los gobiernos vaya a dismi-nuir la forma más efectiva de llevar a cabo su representación.
Es todo lo que teníamos que decir, señor Presidente.
B. de AZEVEDO BRITO (Brazil):Thank you, Mr. Chairman, you have already summed up the situation as it was when we met Saturday and I fully agree with your summing up that there is general consensus of the FAO Council with respect of the Programme and Finance Committee. Like the representative of Venezuela my delegation would also like in principle to have eleven instead of nine in the Finance Committee. However, we will be prepared to go along with the recommendation of the Council since it was a sort of
compromise reached at that level.In fact, at the level of the Ad Hoc Group which advised the Council. Of course even the debates at the present session of the Conference on budgetary matters have the concern of all our members on finance matters and budget matters. But anyway, as I said, we will go along with the compromise of the Council.
You pointed out, Sir, two points for discussion.If I understood the points correctly they were the question of substitutes and the question of so-called by-elections. Now, in fact, the two are related. May I first, say that as far as our substitutes are concerned, the thinking as far as I can recollect of the Ad Hoc Group which considered this programme in detail, we excluded alternates from the start. First because we were speaking about the government representatives, countries, states, which theoretically could represent replacements for their representatives.A different situation from the Committee on a personal basis in which you have an additional person which stands behind the full member just to replace in case of need.
Second it would exclude the possibility of an alternate in order to keep the committees small.That again, is part of the compromise when we reached the move from eleven to nine.There were delegations which would have preferred a smaller committee so that was part of the compromise.I say that to save time because I could speak for one hour but I think probably the relevant information on those two grounds that you were speaking about Member States being represented by one representative and if at all necessary by replacements would not be alternates as such,That is the first aspect.The second aspect is the wish not to keep the Committee too large, that was part of the compromise.
Now the by-election, Sir, is linked as we tried to suggest last Saturday. Linked to government representation. My delegation would have some reservations, to put it mildlyto paragraph 4, a second part of 4(a) and 4(b) on two texts.We feel that if we have a government and member states elected in cases of absolute necessity - for instance a change of administration of an important nature, or a physical impossibility of the man who is representing the country to be present - in such exceptional cases one should allow the country to allow a replacement.I would go along, however, with any language which would make it explicit that there are really exceptional cases.
I referred on Saturday to the experience of the Programme Committee of United Nations and I said there had been only one replacement in 7 years.Of course a replacement would be a mandate of a member country.So that the members which are elected should be urged to make all efforts to keep the person whom they indicate at the beginning for all the time of the mandate.Only under very special circumstances,fully justified, should there be the possibility for a change.In such cases the Council should be informed of the curriculum and details of the person and the state of course would be the first, I am sure, to be careful in the choice of the replacement.I am fully confident whoever is elected - whichever country is elected - to such an important committee will take all the care to ensure adequate representation.I think, perhaps, we should have no reason to doubt about this careful selection.It is a very important committee in our estimation.They are bound to have a vital influence on the conduct of our work.They are the guides for the Council which are a very large body which can go into details and at the same time be an advisory body to the Director-General.It is an extremely important committee.I have no doubt whatever country is elected would put forward the name of a person fully qualified, and if it were at all necessary to provide a replacement of equal standing.That, I think is a reasonable assumption.
Now in whatever language I want to make it clear that we urge the countries not to make replacements unless absolutely necessary, my delegation fully supports this.Thank you very much.
DIRECTOR-GENERAL: I hesitate to intervene in this debate, to which, of course I am not a party. But as I myself served on the FAO Programme Committee from 1957 to 1962, I should like to state my reaction to the proposal to allow a Government - in exceptional cases, which are very difficult to define - to send to the Programme Committee session a person other than one who has been elected.
My problem is as follows. The first difficulty arises in defining those situations. Obviously, a government has supreme power of decision. Thus, if there is a new Minister or a new Government, they may like to designate another person. It is not for the Council, or this meeting, or the Director-General to decide whether or not the decision of the Minister to send an alternate is a wise one. We must accept that decision. In such a case, the alternate would be nominated instead of being elected. He would be sitting at the table with his colleagues, members of the Programme Committee, elected by secret ballot, ana would participate in their work, though he himself had been nominated by his Minister.So he might find himself in a somewhat ambivalent situation, not having the same status, not having been elected, and owing his presence to the choice of his Minister.
I just want to draw your attention to this point. Another aspect to be considered is that, for the past twenty-five years, we have had a Programme Committee of seven members. Now it will have eleven members, because of the increased number of Member States - now 144 - and normal representation should be wider. But this Committee has always been a committee of experts, of wise people; you could call it the Comité des Sages. As long as there is a quorum of seven, I don't think the work of the Committee will be very much hampered if representation is incomplete. I know that, in such a case, the views of the Committee would not be those of all the member countries, of all the regions, since the normal eleven members, in fact, also represent the regions. We know this, even if it has not been put in writing; in practice, selection is made on a national basis, but also on a regional basis; it is a fact of life. It is stated, also, that eight members should come from developing countries. The point I am making here is that the quality of the work - I'm speaking about quality - will not suffer if seven or eight members attend the session rather than eleven, because the experience of many years has demonstrated that this- Committee has always functioned very well with seven members. I agree, however, that, in this case, representation would not be complete, because there would be countries normally represented on the committee who, in fact, would not be present.
In conclusion, I leave the decision to this Committee, but I could not refrain from commenting and expressing my reaction on this subject.
To sum up, how can one define the occasions on which a Government will decide to send an alternate? Furthermore, this alternate would not carry the same weight; he would be in a different category from the delegates, since, as I have already stated, he would be sitting with delegates elected by secret ballot, who would represent a region, and who would be well known. But we can, of course, work with any committee you decide to select, and any solution you decide to adopt will be acceptable to us.
I apologize to the distinguished delegate of Brazil. Though I find myself in agreement with him on many points, I have ventured to express an opinion regarding a Committee on which I had the honour to serve for some years. But what the honourable delegate of Brazil has said is equally valid, because we also need the representation of all Member Countries. Thank you.
B.E. MATAMOROS HUECK (Nicaragua): Como es ésta la primera vez que mi delegación interviene en esa Comisión, en primer término deseo felicitar al señor Presidente por su elección, así como también a los Vicepresidentes.
El resumen a modo de introducción que hizo el señor Presidente le permitió a esta delegación ampliar su criterio y puntualizar algunas informaciones, que estimamos bastante necesarias.
En cuanto al tema que estamos considerando me excusará el señor Presidente que sea un poco más amplio debido a que en la reunión del sábado no tuvimos oportunidad de intervenir.
Mi delegación, señor Presidente, comparte el criterio expresado por otras delegaciones en cuanto a que los miembros tanto del Comité del Programa como del Comité de Finanzas deben ser representantes de los Estados Miembros, y entiende que éstos puedan presentar un curriculum vitae para la elección.
Nos pareceasimismo conveniente, señor Presidente, que estos miembros sean expertos en las cuestiones de que se han de ocupar y que tengan un conocimiento general de las labores y actividades de la Organización.
En cuanto al número de miembros, mi delegación está de acuerdo en que los del Comité del Programa sean once. Por otra parte, vería con agrado que se ampliara también a ese mismo número de miembros, once, los del Comité de Finanzas.
En cuanto a las disposiciones reglamentarias a que se refiere el artículo 26, Apéndice Ft mi delegación entiende que vienen elegidos los Estados Miembros y los que a través de la elección adquieren este derecho. Específicamente, el mismo artículo dice textualmente: "Los Estados Miembros serán elegidos por el Consejo, de conformidad con el procedimiento legal, y los miembros del Comité destinarán como representantes a personas"•
A nuestro criterio, el derecho adquirido en esta elección es del Estado y no del individuo. En este criterio, viene la cuestión que se plantea con la suplencia. Creemos que es estricta facultad, del Estado en determinados casos que se podría definir como el estado de necesidad por impedimento natural u otras circunstancias similares. El Estado, como tal, tendrá la facultad de nombrar un suplente, pero no consideramos que puedan existir otras hipótesis, o que sería necesario recurrir a crear la figura de la suplencia.
En cuanto al párrafo 3 del Apéndice F, mi delegación, recogiendo las recomendaciones del Consejo, de-searía agregar un comentario Me parece que debería expresarse en forma manifiesta que en la elección de los miembros del Comité de Programas y de Finanzas debería conservarse una distribución geográfica equilibrada entre las diferentes regiones que componen la FAO. Creo que así conservaríamos, en una forma clara y expresa, la exigencia de que todos los miembros del Comité deben obedecer a una representación donde. las regiones puedan contribuir, en una forma amplia y equilibrada, a las labores de estos importantes comités, que nosotros consideramos que dan un trabajo y una contribución esencial a las sesiones del Consejo y también de la Organización.
G. LIEBER (Germany, Fed. Rep. of) (interpretation from German): Theopinion of my delegation concerning the composition of the Programme and Finance Committees of the FAO is known already. We would have preferred in the future to have both Committees filled by technicians chosen for their personal qualifications, and the number of representatives should be maintained at its present level.
The decision taken by the Council after long discussion, and the compromise arrived at by the Ad Hoc Working Group is, in our opinion, a maximum amount of modifications which should not be exceeded in the interests of the working capabilities of these bodies. The Programme Committee with eleven members and the Finance Committee with nine, who are also going to bring in the representative views of their governments, as has been requested, will have great difficulty in any case in submitting to the Council the analysis of the Programme and Budget recommendations, and in particular, their balanced opinion.
These are difficulties which we should not increase by the addition of more representatives, particularly in the Finance Committee. Neither should we expect these increased committees to take upon themselves the work of the Council itself. We should remember that both of these committees, according to the Constitution of our Organization, are subsidiary bodies of the Council and should remain such.
The final decision concerning the advice given by these committees should be maintained in the Council. The additional difficulties which arise out of the increased number of members, and the greater difficulties arising out of the deliberations of the increased bodies, should not be neglected in the interests of the Organization itself.
My delegation, therefore, is in favour of accepting the advice of the Council as we have it in the document before us, and of the modification to the Constitution in Appendix F being supposed.
S. JUMA'A (Jordan) (interpretation from Arabie): I have already stated at the meeting of the Council at its Seventy-first session the reasons for my objections to this new proposal which was put forward by the Committee in charge of revising the Constitution of the three Committees - Programme, Finance and CCLM. I still hold the same opinion, and I feel that the Conference, now it is about to make a decision on this subject, will undoubtedly take the wrong decision which for this reason will weaken the importance of these Committees, and particularly that of the Programme Committee and the Finance Committee, because the representation of these two Committees as proposed will be selected first on the basis of the government representation of the country, and secondly on the basis of a regional representation.
Therefore, those who will be members of these two Committees, Programme and Finance, will merely speak of their specific points of view without attributing importance to the Organization itself, because it is an international organization and not a regional one and does not represent groups of States from all over the world. Experience has proved that if possible the members should be familiar with all the reports published by the Council of this Organization ever since its creation. They will notice that these reports contain expressions of gratitude to those two Committees, not merely for formal reasons but because these two Committees were able to render to the Council very great services as the members of these two Committees had personal competence and abilities and spoke from a world-wide and international point of view without attributing too great importance to the opinion of one side or one region. They attributed the greatest importance to international - or rather, scientific -opinion alone, and were not influenced by political or regional questions or sentimental aspects of the problem.
It is unfortunate that the Council, which has been thanking these two Committees over twenty years, should now do away all of a sudden with this and should propose to the Conference the introduction of a new method, which in my opinion is a poor one and which will weaken the Organization. It will create new difficulties for the Secretariat because the representatives of the States who are no longer the same will not be entirely familiar with the problems of the Organization and will not always "be of the required level. Experience has already shown this in the past.
It is also a pity that the Programme and Finance Committees should become a mini-Council, and for many delegations all the discussions will take a great deal of time and will weaken the friendly relationship between the members of these Committees who at present are linked by being small Committees of five to seven people. The decisions made by the Programme and Finance Committees were adopted unanimously.
Never were any resolutions adopted by a majority.It seems to me that to alter the composition of these two Committees and to establish them on a regional basis alone will certainly make it necessary for these Resolutions in the future to be adopted by a majority, not unanimously.
This is a very dangerous question and even though I am aware of the fact that it is late at this stage to change the views of the Conference I believe that as a compromise we should accept the last proposal made by the Council, which proposes an increase in the number of members of the Programme Committee to 11 and of the Finance Committee to 9 and to eliminate the question of alternates for the reason given by the Director-General - that is, that the alternate will not know what has gone on during the previousmeeting of the two Committees.
Here I would like to draw your attention to the fact that the work of the two Committees is continuous and the members who participate must be familiar with all the work from beginning to end.If a person misses one meeting he will have lost the thread of the discussion and he will not know what certain publications are about, since he will not have been there when they were drafted.
So the proposal is this, that within four years at the utmost we should re-open our discussion on this subject and if experience shows that the new procedure for these two Committees is good and that the results are good, then we can continue with the procedure, but if we notice that the work in these two Committees is not satisfactory and has become difficult, we will have to think the matter over again and find a better method which I am sure is the method which exists at present.
I am saying this in order to tell you why I continue to insist that this Resolution, if adopted, will be the worst Resolution adopted by the Council at its present Session.
S. KRONVALL (Sweden): My delegation would like to make some brief comments on the question of alter-nates or substitutes in the enlarged Programme and Finance Committees. We all know what hard work has been done to reach the compromise that I think many governments have accepted as a package.It is therefore with concern that my delegation has noted in the debate views expressed to the effect that governments who are members of the Pragramme and Finance Committees should be free to decide who they wish to send to the meetings of these Committees.
To accept such a development would mean that the important principle of personal capacity or personal qualification could be more or less lost.It would also mean a serious risk of losing continuity in the work of these Committees. To fulfil their important task, the Committees must be composed of highly qualified persons who attend meetings regularly. Alternates or substitutes could thus in my opinion seriously reduce the efficiency of the Committees.
Having said this, let me also, to avoid any misunderstanding, state that I am not questioning the competence or otherwise of sovereign governments. It is just a matter of finding the proper technique to ensure that the important work of the enlarged Programme and Finance Committees will be done with the highest possible efficiency and continuity. As I see it, this means that alternates or substitutes should not be allowed for.
H. ABDALLA (Egypt)(interpretation from Arabic): After having heard the statements by the preceding speakers, I will try to be brief. We agree with the representation of governments on the Programme and Finance Committees, but we would like to stress once again the need for the people representing their governments to be highly qualified and highly competent and that this should be made entirely clear in the curricula vitae submitted at the time of election.The Director-General has shown us his experience as a member of the Programme Committee for many years and mentioned a very important point, the question of the non-elected alternate on an elected group, because when we select the members of the Committee we are familiar with their activities and we know what they do at the Conference.It is on this basis that we make our choice. Our choice is not based on our personal likes or dislikes or because people belong to a certain geographical area or even to a certain group of developed or developing countries. We base our selection on the experience of the person concerned and because we think that the person is qualified.So this Committee is obviously not a committee of governments but the Council is a govern-ment body. These Committees are committees of experts in agicultural matters, and I insist on the
agricultural nature of these bodies, because very often we realise that on these Committees there are not sufficient agricultural experts and agronomists, also of financial experts and accounting experts. We must bear this in mind very closely when we deal with the Finance Committee, because a member who is not familiar with financial quations and accounting, questions will have to turn to someone who is responsible for these questions.
Here I would like to stress the importance of the technical qualifications of the representatives. The delegate of Jordan is quite right when he refers to the question pertaining to the choice of these government representatives. There is a text of the Constitution which says that the persons elected to the Programme Committee and the Finance Committee must have attended the Conferences of the Organization and be familiar with the activities of the Organization. It is unacceptable for a government to present a representative to us who has not attended any Conferences of the Organization for membership of the Programme Committee. Any nomination made by a government or by someone on behalf of a government should specify the number of Conferences attended and in what capacity so that we may know what his qualifications are. This is a point we must bear in mind.
Concerning the geographical distribution, we support this entirely because these persons represent different regions. But in financial matters we do not see the importance of geographical representation. Here we are concerned with questions of finance and accounting, matters which are a question of qualifications. Whether they come from Europe, Asia or anywhere else does not really matter. So here I insist on the representation of both developed and developing countries, developed countries because they have a great deal of technical and scientific knowledge, and developing countries because they try to defend the interests of that part of the world.
Before concluding I would like to draw your attention to the question raised by the Director-General concerning alternates. Here I believe that we should maintain this system of elected alternates who attend the work of the Committee if the titular member himself is unable to attend.
Sra. M. IVANKOVICH de AROSEMENA (Panamá): Mi delegación considera que los Comités de Finanzas y de Programas deben seguir desempeñando las funciones de órganos consultivos del Consejo y del Director General. Como órganos de consulta de ambos, sus miembros deben ser elegidos tomando en cosideración sus capacidades individuales y técnicas en la materia. Pero estimamos también que los candidatos deben ser presentados por sus gobiernos. Por lo tanto, apoyamos que los miembros de ambos comités sean representantes de Gobiernos. Apoyamos también el aumento del número de miembros de ambos Comités a un total de once en el Comité de Programas y de nuevo en el Comité de Finanzas. No objetamos que puedan ser elevados a once los miembros en el Comité de Finanzas. A este respecto, mi delegación considera que es muy legítimo el derecho de todas las regiones a estar debidamente representadas en ambos Comités. La representación geográfica constituye un equilibrio en los trabajos de ambos.
P. MASUD (Pakistan): The position of my delegation is very similar to, if not exactly the same as, that of the Brazilian delegation. There is however one question which is agitating my mind and on which I will seek clarification and take advantage of the Director-General's presence to do so. It is regarding the Finance Committee. The proposal put forward by the Council was that the membership of the Finance Committee, which is presently five, should be increased by four and brought to a figure of nine, which is almost double the present number. Now we hear proposals which state that the Pro-gramme Committee should have 11 members, which would be even more titan double. We would like to know whether the work of the Finance Committee has doubled in volume since it was first constituted. If not, then there does not seem to be any justification for increasing the number to eleven. Secondly, is there any dissatisfaction with the present performance of the Finance Committee which would necessitate an increase to the number of eleven? At this stage I must say that we have no objection to the number being raised to eleven, but this is a question which is agitating my mind and I thought that clarification on this issue would be helpful to all concerned.
Moreover, all the delegations who have spoken in favour of the figure of eleven have given no justification for this increase. It appears that they have plucked this figure out of the air or have reasoned that since the Programme Committee has eleven members, therefore the Finance Committee should also have eleven. But they forget that the Programme Committee is comprised of seven members and there is only an increase of four, which is not too much of an increase considering the increase in the volume of FAO’s work.
I should therefore be extremely obliged if some of the delegations which have been proposing a figure of eleven could given some justification for that. I must also admit that this has somewhat of a selfish motive because, as Rapporteur, I have to report on why these delegations have asked for a figure of eleven; and that is why I am raising this question.
S. STAMPACH (Tchécoslovaquie):Notre délégation lors de la discussion au Conseil s'est déjà ralliée au consensus sur la proposition concernant l'augmentation des membres du Comité du programme et du Comité des finances.
Néanmoins, permettez-moi, Monsieur le Président, d'attirer une fois de plus votre attention sur certains aspects concernant la représentation des pays membres dans les deux comités.
1. Nous soutenons l'idée que ce sont les gouvernements qui doivent être représentés, mais en même temps il faut dire franchement qu'il est difficile de parler de "représentation régionale en ce qui concerne les représentants et les membres des deux comités, parce qu'il faut considérer qu'il existe différents systèmes socio-économiques, et qu'il est peu réaliste de demander à un représentant, dont le gouvernement appartient à un système socio-économique tout à fait différent de l'autre, d'exprimer l'avis d'un gouvernement de système tout à fait différent.
2. C'est pourquoiil nous semble anachronique de distribuer les postes uniquement selon la région; il serait préférable de prendre en considération à la fois le principe de base de la représentation régionale et celui de la représentation géographique, tel qu'il est appliqué dans l'Organisation des Nations Unies.
J'avais l'avantage d'être non seulement au groupe ad hoc du Président du Conseil, mais aussi au CQCJ lors de la discussion de ces problèmes.Nous soutenons la représentation des gouvernements et des Etats, et nous pensons que parler de suppléants, maintenir le système des suppléants, ou même indiquer le suppléant d'avance, représenterait une certaine limitation du droit souverain des différents gouvernements. Nous ne pensons pas que ce serait justifié du point de vue légal.
Il nous semble qu'un certain quorum est souhaitable en ce qui concerne le travail de ces deux comités, parce que, jusqu'à présent, ils ont travaillé avec une représentation plus limitée sans rencontrer de grandes difficultés; donc, si quelque gouvernement est absent d'une réunion parce qu'il ne peut pas envoyer son représentant nommé à l'origie, cela ne devrait pas gêner le travail du Comité.
Je voudrais dire aussi que, si nous acceptons le principe de l'élection par Etat, en pratique le représentant doit suivre ses instructions et ne peut pas se limiter à exprimer un avis personnel sur les différents aspects même si son opinion est subjectivement sage, il doit respecter les instructions du gouvernement qu'il représente.
Il s'agit non seulement des deux Comités mais également du CQCJ qui a aussi une certaine influence sur la fonction du Conseil.Nous parlons d'un rôle consultatif mais je pense que, dans la pratique, on peut plus concrètement analyser les différents aspects du travail de toute Organisation.
C'est pourquoi ces deux Comités ont certainement une grande influence sur le progrès et la gestion de l'Organisation.
Nous pensons qu'il serait bon de juger la représentation géographique au Conseil, aux deux Comités, et probablement au CQCJ comme un ensemble, ce qui permettrait d'avoir une représentation plus large des différents pays et d'attirer l'initiative d'un nombre plus large de pays membres dans leur collaboration avec l'Organisation.
Si nous avons au Conseil 49 membres, et maintenant 11 membres dans un Comité,9 dans l'autre, nous avons dans l'ensemble 69 pays qui pourraient être représentés directement dans les organes directeurs et consultatifs les plus importants de l'Organisation.C'est pourquoi nous estimons qu'il serait bon de prendre en considération, au cours de la présentation, les différentes candidatures.
En ce qui concerne le CQCJ, nous pensons que le travail de cet Organe, qui n'est pas dans la constitution de toutes les agences des Nations Unies, était très utile pour cette Organisation.
Je me demande si, maintenant, lorsque nous discutons du Comité financier et du Comité du programme, les mêmes caractéristiques ne sauraient pas être appliquées en ce qui concerne le Comité juridique et constitutionnel, parce que dans ce Comité il serait nécessaire d'avoir des juristes qui, si on parle de problèmes constitutionnels, soient très au courant dés principes juridiques de l'Organisation.
En ce qui concerne la procédure pour l'élection, nous voudrions de nouveau réserver notre position en ce qui concerne les élections par étapes, en ce sens que nous ne voudrions pas avoir ici un prejudice en ce qui concerne la conception de la représentation géographique pour les autres agences des Nations Unies.
Je me permets de poser une question formelle auprès du Conseil juridique en ce qui concerne les mo-difications de l'Article 20.6 et 20.7 de la Constitution, spécialement en ce qui concerne le délai pour présenter les candidatures. Si nous sommes en train d'approuver cette nouvelle modification au sein de notre Commission, et maintenant au plénium de la Conférence, alors il nous manquerait quelques jours pour répondre à l'exigence de dix jours avant l'élection. Je me demande s'il ne serait pas bon d'avoir une certaine exception pour cette Conférence ou pour la prochaine session du Conseil en ce nui concerne ce délai de dix jours, parce que les gouvernements devront présenter leurs candidatures non pas en se basant sur le principe que nous sommes maintenant en train de modifier, mais sur le principe du document nouveau. Je pense qu'il serait bon, du point de vue juridique, de prévoir une certaine exception en ce qui concerne cette procédure.
En conclusion, je voudrais de nouveau souligner le principe de la représentation juste et réaliste des pays membres.
Cette Organisation est devenue probablement la plus grande agence - je n'ose pas dire la plus impor-tante agence - des Nations Unies; c'est pourquoi ce principe devrait devenir,si je puis dire, une loi constitutionnelle pour cette Organisation, parce qu'il assure l'équilibre dans la représentation au Conseil et aux différents comités. Je pense qu'elle mérite d'avoir cet équilibre et que cela ne pourrait que servir son progrès.
LE CONSEILLER JURIDIQUE: M. le Président, puisque les décisions que voudra prendre la Conférence com-porteront également des amendements aux règlements généraux de l'Organisation, il faudra qu'il y ait une résolution. Nous avons pensé qu'il serait souhaitable que les résolutions comprennent également un paragraphe opératif prévoyant que le délai de dix jours qui est prévu dans le projet de la nouvelle règle ne s'appliquerait pas aux élections qui doivent avoir lieu au Comité du Programme et du Comité financier lors d la 63ème session du Conseil,c'est-à-dire lors de 1 session qui suivra immédiatement cette Conférence.
A. GOMEZ ORBANEJA (España): La delegación de Espana ya ha hecho una declaración el otro día.
Por la propuesta del Consejo y por las discusiones de esta Comisión llegamos a la conclusión de que hay ciertas finalidades, ciertas aspiraciones que tienen una gran mayoría. Nosotros estamos perfecta-mente de acuerdo con esas finalidades.
Estamos perfectamente de acuerdo, como ha explicado el señor Presidente, con que los Comités deben ser unos Comités de miembros representantes de Gobiernos, con calificación especial en los individuos. Per-fectamente de acuerdo.
Estamos asimismo de acuerdo en que haya una mayor distribución geográfica; aspiramos a que haya una distribución geográfica lo más extendida posible.
Otro extremo es el de la distribución por regiones. Hay regiones que tienen muchos más países que otras.Estamos de acuerdo en que las regiones con países menos desarrollados que son una gran mayoría deben tener una mayor proporción de miembros.
Estamos, pues, de acuerdo con estos tres puntos o finalidades.Lo que nos preocupa, señor Presidente, es cómo vamos a conseguir tales finalidades, de aquí mi pregunta y mi duda respecto a si el cambio de reglamento que se nos propone podrá conseguir lo que queremos. A nosotros nos parece que no.Tal como está redactado el reglamento, yo creo que no vamos a conseguir eso a que aspiramos.
Se habla de que se va a hacer la distribución por regiones, y se agrupan las regiones, y puede ocurrir que haya una sola región en un grupo.De manera que sería ilusoria la distribución geográfica. Por ello, estimo que debiera pensarse en como se puede conseguir esa eficaz distribución geográfica.
Acabamos de oír a varios delegados, y de ello me congratulo, y en último término al de Checoslovaquia, que la cuestión de distribución geográfica debe verse en todo su conjunto, tanto en el Consejo como en los Comités del Programa y en el de Finanzas.
Para lograrlo, creemos, y a ello aspiramos, que los miembros de los países que no están representados en el Consejo tengan una mayor posibilidad de estar representados en los Comités del Programa y de Finanzas.
En primer lugar, estimamos que debe establecerse en el reglamento una cierta preferencia para los paí-ses que no sean miembros del Consejo. Y en segundo lugar, si los miembros van a representar regiones o a hablar en nombre de regiones, es lógico, me parece bien que los Presidentes de esos Comités no puedan hablar en nombre de una región: deben mantener un punto de vista de las distintas regiones.
Es natural también que el Presidente que se va a elegir, que ha de ser independiente y por separado, no represente una región, y para ello sería conveniente que no pertenezca a ninguna región de las que tenga que representar, y que luego la distribución geográfica se lleve a cabo cuando se haga la segunda etapa de los Comités.
Estos dos puntos o propuestas que acabo de mencionar los queremos presentar formalmente, aunque no sé si es éste el momento oportuno o cuando se discuta el texto de reglamento que se nos propone.
Y en cuanto a lo que nos ha dicho el señor Director General sobre los -sustitutos, no podemos estar completamente de acuerdo con él.Creemos y seguimos creyendo que hubiera sido mucho mejor que los sustitutos los nombrase el mismo Consejo ya con antelación, y serían sustitutos no de un individuo si-no sustitutos de otros Estados. No haría falta complicar el sistema para la designación de nuevos sus-titutos si los hubiera elegido ya el Consejo con antelación, con la garantía de que se trata de técni-cos que presenta el propio Consejo.
Sobre esta materia ha hablado muy acertadamente Jordania y nosotros estamos de acuerdo con sus mani-festaciones.
Insisto en que lo que nos preocupa es cómo vamos a conseguir esa distribución geográfica. Por ello, nos reservamos proponer enmiendas concretas al texto del reglamento. Muchas gracias.
J L TOFFIN (France): Je serais très bref. Je suis déjà intervenu en effet samedi dernier pour appuyer d'une façon générale les propositions du Conseil concernant la réforme du Comité du Programme et du Comité financier. Je voudrais simplement revenir aujourd'hui sur deux points qui, si l'on se réfère à l'exposé de notre Président, posent encore un problème et font encore l'objet de quesques divergences au sein de cette Commission: D'abord, le problème de l'élargissement du Comité financier. Je dois dire que, pour notre part, notre délégation verrait de sérieuses objections à ce que l'on revienne sur les propositions du Consil concernant l'élévation à 9 de l'effectif du Comité financier. Cet effectif a été établi après de laborieuses tractations, et a cherché à réaliser un équilibre au point de vue de la répartition régionale, équilibre entre régions et aussi implicitement entre pays développés et pays en voie de développement. Il est évident que si l'on remet en cause le chiffre des effectif? du Comité financier, il faudra revoir toute la distribution géographique de façon à maintenir l'équilibre auquel on était parvenu et que cela nécessitera de très longues discussions et dont on ne voit pas très bien d'ailleurs la nécessité. Je rappelle en effet que, comme l'a très bien indiqué le représentant du Pakistan, l'on n'a jusqu'ici donné aucune raison motivée, aucune raison convaincante des avantages qu'il pourrait y avoir à augmenter les effectifs du Comité financier.
Je rappelle d'ailleurs que, dans la formule actuelle qui est traditionnelle à la FAO, le Comité du Pro-gramme et le Comité financier n'ont pas le mêmes effectifs: le Comité du Programme a aujourd'hui 7 mem-bres, et le Comité financier 5. Il n'y aucune nécessité à ce que deux Comités aient donc le même effectif.
Le second point sur lequel je voudrais dire un mot est celui des suppléants. Nous ne voyons pas la . nécessité de rétablir le poste de suppléant qui figurait jusqu'ici dans le Comité du Programme et dans le Comité financier. Tout d'abord, la suppression des suppléants a été recommandée par le Groupe de travail, approuvée par le Conseil, parce qu'elle apparaissait un peu comme la contrepartie de l'augmentation des effectifs des deux Comités, et qu'il y avait tout lieu de s'efforcer de maintenir un chiffre global aussi petit que possible afin de maintenir l'efficacité des travaux de ce Comité. D'autre part, l'existence des suppléants, on l'a rappelé d'ailleurs tout à l'heure, n'a plus de véri-table raison d'être depuis que les membres des deux Comités sont des représentants des gouvernements. Autrefois, avec le système des représentants à titre personnel, l'existence des suppléant se justifiait, puisqu'il fallait pouvoir remplacer un membre absent; aujourd'hui, s'agissant de représentants des gouvernements, on peut laisser à chaque gouvernement le soin de désigner le cas échéant un remplaçant, au cas ou son représentant ordinaire serait indisponible et au moins pour une séance, n'est-ce pas, comme il est prévu dans les propositions du Conseil.
POINT OF ORDER
POINT D'ORDRE
PUNTO DE ORDEN
Q. HABÍBUL RAQUE (Bangladesh):I want to raise a point of order. If I could hear you correctly your summing up was that on certain issues we have come to a consensus; on certain other issues the floor is open for discussion. But my understanding from the discussion is that the whole question is open now. We as delegates have been intervening on all the aspects of the problem, including whether there should be governmental representation tempered with personal qualities, all aspects of Programme and Finance Committees. I would urge upon you to limit the discussion to the specific points so that we can wind up the discussion and come to a consensus.
CHAIRMAN: I think you are perfectly right because in my summing up I said that the consensus was that the recommendation of the Council had been agreed on several points, including the membership of the Finance and Programme Committees. The only point at issue was the question of the substitute because it is also agreed that the representative should be representative of government because a compromise had been reached.So I will ask the members, because time is limited, we have. still a number of speakers on our list, to confine their remarks to the point at issue which I have just mentioned.
Q. HABIBUL HAQUE (Bangladesh): If I understand you correctly now, for the second time, the discussion in the House is now limited only to the question of substitutes, not even alternates, so it is only a question of substitutes, when a member nation represented by a personality is for unavoidable reasons absent in the committee, whether he could be substituted by a member designated by that nation. This is the only point in discussion now, am I correct?
CHAIRMAN: Yes. The question of alternate I understood had already been discussed last Saturday because nobody is in favour.There has been some confusion when members spoke about alternate substitutes. Alternates, as it exists now, means replacement of the representative government; what we understand by substitute means replacement of the representative elected on the different committees, so what is at issues now is the substitute and, together with it, the question of by-election.
J.GARCIA E. (El Salvador): En atención a la intervención anterior de que existe un consenso sobre los distintos puntos que se han planteado, mi delegación, en todo caso, quisiera más bien referirse al tema que nos ocupa, que es el de los sustitutos o suplentes, como quiera llamárselos. Somos del criterio de que sean los Estados Miembros quienes designen, en caso de eventualidad, quién debe reemplazar a un sustituto o suplente determinado. Es inadmisible que se pretenda que un miembro de ese comité actúe a título personal. Esto distorsiona la conformación del orden establecido en las comunidades de naciones, donde la participación de un miembro debe estar en línea con los intereses del país que representa.
Finalmente, nosotros estamos, o más bien compartimos, la propuesta de que el Comité de Finanzas también pueda aumentarse a once.
En cuanto a la calificación que debe reunir el candidato, modus operandi, debe convenirse que en la distribución geográfica un curriculum atendiendo a los méritos personales del candidato, es lo que debe prevalecer.Es como una cogitación del mismo.
B. SAMANEZ CONCHA (Perú);Si vamos a discutir únicamente el problema de los sustitutos y de los suplen-tes, creo que estaríamos discutiendo un poco en el vacío.Creo que para tratar esto debe quedar clara-mente establecido el carácter de representatividad de los miembros de los dos Comités, de Finanzas y del Programa. Se habla de que hubo un consenso en el Consejo para presentar un proyecto de resolución a la Conferencia, proyecto que figura en el apéndice F del documento que estamos discutiendo, en el cual, en el punto segundo del texto español se dice textualmente: "Todo Estado Miembro de la organización que desee ser elegido como miembro del Comité'; o sea, que eato implica que la recomendación es que la
representación sea a los Estados y de ninguna manera a las personas, y como tal, debe ser el Estado en función de su soberanía, en caso de que la persona que designó como titular no pueda concurrir por determinadas razones, quien debe nominar al sustituto, y creo que la palabra "sustituto" expresa claramente lo que es. Se trata de un reemplazo del miembro; se trata de una sustitución; no se trata de una suplencia temporal. Sería el reemplazo para lo que resta del período.
De manera que nosotros estamos de acuerdo en que debe ser representado a título del Estado Miembro; es decir se trata de una sustitución y no de una suplencia. Además, yo creo que es la primera vez que hacemos uso de la palabra al discutir este tema y yo creo que deben tocarse otros puntos.
En el proyecto de resolución se habla de que un muerto no puede asistir. Esto me preocupa profundamente. El muerto, muerto esta y de ninguna manera podrá asistir, De forma que recomiendo o solicito que el punto A del apéndice cuatro sea cuidadosamente revisado en su redacción.
Ahora, con relación a la representatividad por regiones debo manifestar que en el punto I del párrafo tercero del apéndice F no se recoge la recomendación del punto g del apéndice F, al elevar el Consejo su informe, a la Conferencia. Al elegir a los miembros de los Comités, el Consejo deberá tener en cuenta el principio de asegurar una distribución geográfica equitativa en los Comités, o lo que se sugiere es que la resolución debería recoger esta recomendación para que quede claramente establecida la distribución equitativa en cada una de las regiones en el momento de la elección de los miembros de los comités.
A.J. PECKHAM (United Kingdom): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to make some very brief remarks on a strictly practical consideration. When we are dealing with the question of candidates, of people elected, to these very important Committees. I think the first consideration is that the committees are immensely important to the work of FAO, and if I may say to the standing of the Organization. I would have thought that almost everyone is agreed that the important thing is to ensure that we get people of some stature sitting on these committees. Not only is it a question of technical qualifications, but of their personal capacity and standing.
I mention these considerations because I think they are important, Mr. Chairman. Now I do so because I want to lay before the Committee a particular problem which we have faced, and which I think, may face other governments.
If you are going to get hold of representatives with the requisite qualifications and standing, you cannot guarantee that they will always be available whenever a meeting of the Committee may take place. Clearly if they are elected they will do their utmost to attend. But by the nature of things if you are wanting people of some standing they have other engagements. And, therefore, I recall the Director-General's opening remarks when he referred to the possibility exceptionally of members of the Committee being unable to attend. I'm sure if people are elected it would be very exceptional, but there is the strictly practical consideration that, if you tie people down to guarantee their attendance as it were then inevitably you are eliminating some of the best people available.
I just want to make that strictly practical point, Mr. Chairman, and suggest that there is a need for a little common sense. I think the real problem here is always balancing what is in a practical sense desirable and what one would theoretically like to happen. I just want to make those observations because this is a problem which the United Kingdom has been wrestling with in order to make available a particular candidate. Since the discussion, Mr. Chairman,is purely on the matter of substitution in the event, exceptionally, of members not being available I will not make remarks about the composition of the Committees as my understanding is that this matter has now been settled.
J.S. CAMARA (Guinée):Pour répondre à l'appel de notre Président, je vais m'efforcer d'être bref. J'ai eu l'honneur d'être membre du Groupe qui a élaboré la plupart des documents qui sont soumis au Conseil et au Comité des questions constitutionnelles et juridiques.
Parler uniquement du problème des remplaçants ou des suppléants n'est pas chose aisée.Je pense que cette question des remplaçants devrait être acceptée telle qu'elle a été proposée par le Comité des questions constitutionnelles et juridiques, car il est vrai qu'un pays qui présente une candidature à un poste au Comité du programme ou au Comité financier s'engage à faire le maximum d'efforts pour que son représentant puisse assister à toutes les réunions. Il est également bien évident que si, pour une raison ou. pour une autre, il arrivait qu'un représentant ne puisse pas assister à une session, il conviendrait de laisser au gouvernement la possibilité de désigner une autre personne, en en informant à temps le Directeur général.
En ce qui concerne le nombre des membres de ces comités, c'est-à-dire onze membres dans l'un et neuf dans l'autre, il n'y aura pas de difficultés d'obtenir un quorum afin de permettre aux deux comités de fonctionner.
Pour ce qui concerne la question de l'augmentation des membres du Comité financier, je pense avec le délégué du Pakistan que la proposition qui a été faite constitue un processus lent et difficile. Je suis d'avis que nous devrions maintenir les deux comités tels qu'ils sont actuellement. Sur la base de cette considération, ma délégation serait prête à accepter le texte qui nous est soumis.
Je voudrais insister toutefois sur une question qui a été soulevée par le délégué tchécoslovaqueà savoir celle de la représentation régionale équitable. Nous sommes d'accord qu'il y ait des pays développés et des pays en développement et que les deux groupes soient suffisamment bien représentés comme l'a proposé le Conseil. Mais il y a également uñe représentation régionale dans ces deux grou-pes de pays, et deux types d'élection. Il faudrait donc que les régions soient représentées de façon équitable. Certaines régions comportent beaucoup de membres, elles ont donc des difficultés pour pré-senter leurs candidats. Il faudrait tenir compte de ce fait, de même que des différences sociales et économiques dans le monde pour permettre au Directeur général de s'orienter, parce que ces comités sont des organes consultatifs pour le Directeur général qui doit avoir le point de vue des différentes ten-dances qui sont confrontées actuellement dans le monde.
A.A. MANSOOR (Bahrain) (interpretation from Arabie): The delegate from Bangladesh has cut the ground from under my feet in the question of substitutes alone and the question to be discussed concerns substitutes only. Substitutes are appointed for the personal qualifications of the representative of the country but actually, Mr. Chairman, many of the points raised were eliminated from the discussion because the states cannot reach a consensus. It seems, however, that it is also recommended from the Council concerning substitutes, so why should we discuss that question only because I believe that if the representation is to be done by the government and by the state then we should see to it that the members of these committees should be competent too.That they should be able to do efficient work on the committees. Of course the states could to save time present the name of the substitute so that the Council may take a decision on the substitute as well.That might perhaps be a compromise solution to this problem of the substitutes.
DATO'ISHAK B. Hj. PATEH AKHIR (Malaysia):Since thisis the first time that I am taking the floor, allow me to congratulate you, Mr. Chairman, on your election as Chairman of this Commission. With your vast experience, I am confident that our deliberations will run smoothly.
Malaysia is most appreciative of the considerable amount of hard work put in by the Council, the Working Party, and the CCLM, and would go along with the recommendations made by the Council in Paragraph 237 of Appendix A.
However, in the matter of alternates, we noted somewhere in the document that one of the questions left unresolved by the Council is whether or not member nations should be free to designate substitutes for their representatives whenever situations make substitution imperative. Malaysia is quite agreeable to the proposal that member nations should have the authority to designate substitutes for their represen-tatives, but it is important, however, to adhere to the principle of personal merit and it is also important to ensure continuity of attendance by representatives.
Malaysia's agreement is therefore subject to such safeguards, and we note that the amendments to the relative rules prepared by the CCLM do provide these safeguards. I refer to Paragraph 4(c) of the proposed amendments to the GRO concerned.
L. LAPEBY (Gabon): La question que nous étudions actuellement risque d'avoir de nombreuses conséquences qui ne seront pas toujours heureuses, parce que nous nous bornons au problème des remplaçants. Je voudrais d'abord dire qu'un remplaçant, s'il n'a pas suivi les travaux de la FAO, s'il n'a pas suffisamment de connaissances en ce qui concerne les fonctions et les devoirs de la FAO, me paraît plutôt un fardeau qu'un, élément rentable au sein d'un Comité tel que le Comité du programme ou le Comité financier. Même en considérant la répartition géographique la mieux élaborée pour la région concernée, il n'offre pas de garantie quant à la qualité. Le résultat n'est pas difficile à deviner. Certes, il eut été normal et peut-être préférable, très préférable même, qu'en étudiant le problème de la représentation des gouvernements on ait étudié auparavant le mandat des comités. Parce que nous introduisons une nouvelle notion, et nous avons déjà pas mal d'expérience dans les groupes de travail,
où les représentants des Etats, faisant valoir le mandat de leur gouvernement, bloquent les travaux. Cela revient à un double travail. Je crains que dans la situation actuelle, nous n'arrivions au même résultat: c'est que, se prévalant du mandat que le gouvernement lui a donné, un représentant empêche le comité de travailler, qu'il s'agisse du comité du programme ou du comité financier. C'est un dra-me et je crois que l'on ne devrait pas clore ce problème, mais qu'il faut le laisser à l'étude. Nous verrons les résultats dans deux ou quatre ans. Quelle que soit la compétence du candidat présenté par l'Etat, il ne faudrait pas que, selon l'importance de son Etat, de son gouvernement ou de la con tribution de son pays, il puisse dire au Comité: mon gouvernement. m'a demandé de définir tel point et de pas aller au-delà.
Les comités tels qu'ils ont été connus étaient dégagés de cette notion.Il s'agissait de personnes élues uniquement sur la base de leurs compétences. Elles pourraient parler non pas en se référant à une attitude de leur gouvernement mais en tant qu' experts, c'est là où réside le vrai problème. Celui des remplaçants est encore beaucoup plus grave.
L. COMANESCU (Romania): I will be very, very brief, Mr. Chairman. I only want to stress some points on this matter of balanced geographical representation on the two bodies we are talking about. We fully agree with the opinion expressed by our colleague from Czechoslovakia supported by Spain,which has taken into consideration the representation as a whole in the Council and its subsidiary bodies for electing members to the Programme and Finance Committees. That is our first point.
The second refers to Appendix F of document C 77/LIM/2 specifically on the procedure proposed for the election of members from Europe, North America and South-West Pacific.It seems to us equitable and fair that when electing the members from these regions we should take into consideration the number of countries existing in each of these regions.
POINT OF ORDER
POINT OF D’ORDER
PUNTO DE ORDEN
A.J. PECKHAM (United Kingdom):On a point of order, Mr. Chairman - I made an intervention a little earlier and would have had quite a lot to say about geographical representation, but my under-standing was that you had ruled a consensus on this plan.
If in fact the matter is to be re-opened, I want to put you on notice there may be others who wantto speak on it, but I think the time is too late.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, delegate of the United Kingdom. My task can sometimes become very embarrassing.It is so .difficult to anticipate what delegates are going to say, and once the speeches are started it is difficult to interrupt them. I think delegates will understand that time is against us as it is now almost five o'clock, and I will again appeal to them to confine themselves to the points still to be resolved.
K. OLZVOY (Mongolia): Since this is the first time I am taking the floor I would like to congratulate you, Mr. Chairman, on your election to the Chairmanship of this important Committee.
I would like very briefly to state the position of my delegation on the issue before us. We support the proposed increase of the members of the Programme and Finance Committees and the idea that the members of the Committees should represent their respective governments. I would also like to stress the governments of the States who have been elected to the Committees have the sovereign right to freely appoint their representatives and substitutes to them.
It is our opinion that the membership of both Committees should represent the various geographical regions as well as the social and economic systems.
S. DOSSOU (Bénin):Etant donné que ma délégation est déjà intervenue pour dire qu'elle approuvait la proposition du Groupe de travail d'augmenter le nombre des membres des deux comités, je vais être bref. Je voudrais insister sur trois points.
J'appuie fortement la proposition tendant à ce que les candidats proposés soient des représentants des gouvernements. La pratique déjà acquise à 1 Unesco montre que la solution contraire favoriserait une certaine anarchie. Finalement, la FAO est une Organisation qui regroupe avant tout des Etats Membres.
S'agissant des remplaçants, il y a tout d'abord un problème pratique que je voudrais soulever.Il est dit, au paragraphe a) de l'Annexe F que nous examinons, que s'il apparaît que le représentant d'un membre du Comité sera dans l'mpossibilité de participer à une session, l'Etat peut désigner un autre candidat en le notifiant au Directeur général. Je voudrais savoir s'il ne serait pas nécessaire de faire intervenir une modification du texte, car qu'arriverait-il lorsque, entre deur sections du Con- seil, un membre venait à décéder par exemple, alors qu'il n'y aurait pas de session du Conseil pour juger si le remplaçant proposé est competent.
En outre, je souhaiterais qu'il soit précisé au paragraphe 4 qu'au cas où un candidat ne présenterait pas telles qualifications, le Conseil se réserverait le droit de le refuser éventuellement.Je le répète, il faudrait préciser spécialement ce point.
Enfin, en relisant le règlement intérieur du Comité du programme, il y a sept membres gouvernementaux. A l'Article 8, quatre membres et un suppléant constituent le quorum.Nous supprimons maintenant le suppléant.Je pense qu'il est nécessaire de conserver au moins cet article indiquant le nombre qui constitue le quorum.
MAPELA NGA-MA (Zaire): Ma délégation estime que si l'on doit adjoindre aux membres de ces deux comités des suppléants ou des remplaçants, il faudrait que les candidatures des suppléants soient aussi soumises aux élections, cela afin de respecter le critère de qualifications et de compétence personnelles. Mais toutefois, ainsi que l'a dit le délégué du Gabon, ma délégation craint un certain dualisme entre l'Organisation et les membres des deux comités, du fait: que ces derniers membres étant représentants de leurs pays respectifs, risquent de se limiter aux instructions de leurs gouvernements. Aussi, nous proposons que l'on associe le Directeur général dans le choix des membres des deux comités, dans une formule selon laquelle l'avis du Directeur général soit requis avant d'élire le candidat à un de ces deux comités.
M. EL DALATI (Syria)(interprétation from Arabie): First I should like to apologise for having been absent when I was given the floor last time.
Since I am taking the floor for the first time, Mr. Chairman, I should like to congratulate you on your election to the chairmanship of this Commission.
I would like to thank the Director-General for the comments he made regarding the enlargement of both Committees. It is clear that the enlargement of the Programme and Finance Committees has become necessary following the increased membership of the Council. I would like to say that the nature of these two Committees proves that these are technical committees and that it is necessary for us to ensure the competence of the membership of these Committees. Also, the expansion of these two Committees should be reasonable, even if we have to take into account the principle of geographical distribution and the representation of various regions. Also I believe that we must be flexible with respect to regional representation to allow the two Committees to be comprised of competent persons capable of getting the job done in the most efficient way. This is why we accept the recommendations made to the Council regarding the increased membership of the Programme Committee to eleven and of the Finance Committee to nine.
As regards the question of substitutes, we believe that it would be helpful to define those conditions under which a substitute may be designated by this government. For example, we could say that if a member misses two consecutive sessions he could lose his status as member and the substitute would then become a member.
B.E. MATAMOROS HUECK (Nicaragua): Trataré de ser muy breve, y me excuso, señor Presidente y señores delegados, por tomar nuevamente la palabra.
Solamente deseo sentar una afirmación, que me parece comparten muchas delegaciones: el derecho adquirido en el momento de la elección es del Estado Miembro. En consecuencia, señor Presidente, en el caso de impedimento, de ausencia del representante del Estado en el Comité del Programa o en el de Finanzas, las
atribuciones para nombrar un sustituto son estrictamente del Estado. Y le parece a mi delegación, señor Presidente, que cualquier mención a una elección parcial o intermedia, o a otro mecanismo que no fuera propio del Estado no sería consecuente con lo contenido en el párrafo 2 del artículo 36.
Al mismo tiempo deseo hacer presente mi adhesión a la propuesta hecha por la delegación de España. A mi delegación le parece muy pertinente.
Siendo estos dos Comités constituidos por representantes de gobiernos, quizá los Presidentes de ambos deberían ser elegidos en calidad de Presidentes independientes, en la misma forma y paralelamente a como dispone el reglamento de la Organización respecto del Consejo. Muchas gracias.
Sra. Doña G. RIVERA MARIN de ITURBE (México): Muchas gracias señor Presidente por la distinción de que he sido objeto.
He pedido la palabra primeramente para felicitar al señor Presidente por su elección para dirigir esta Tercera Comisión y, en segundo término, para apoyar las palabras del distinguido delegado de Nicaragua en el sentido de que si una elección ha favorecido a un Estado y este Estado ha seleccionado a una per-sona como su representante en el Comité -sea del Programa, sea de Finanzas-, se considera que la ele-ción lógica recae en la persona que reúne los atributos que aquí se están enumerando y que son exigibles Sara una representación de tan alta distinción como es ésta. Y si esta persona por alguna circunstancia o puede cumplir con el mandato que se le ha encomendado, el Estado Miembro que ha sido favorecido con el nombramiento debe seguir en posesión de ese nombramiento.
Aquí estamos hablando de representaciones gubernamentales, no de representaciones por méritos persona-les. Por consiguiente, nuestro criterio es que el gobierno que ha sido elegido debe seguir ostentando el puesto hasta que termine el plazo legal para el cual fue designado.
He sido muy breve cumpliendo sus deseos, señor Presidente, y muchas gracias por haberme dado la pala-bra fuera de tiempo.
CHAIRMAN: That concludes our discussion on Item 17. The Draft Report will be prepared by the rapporteur and the Report will also contain the Draft Resolution on this matter.
As I indicated when we opened this meeting, we have amended the Agenda to add two items - the Authentic Chinese Text of the FAO Constitution, and the Status and Use of Languages in FAO. I will ask the Legal Counsel to introduce the subject on the Authentic Chinese Text.
LEGAL COUNSEL: The relevant documents in this sub-item are the report of the Seventy-First Session of the Council, paragraphs 218 to 220, reproduced in document C 77/LIM/13, document C 77/LIM/13 Sup.1 Rev.1 Appendix C, and document C 77/LIM/33, which sets forth the draft Conference Resolution as reviewed from the point of view of form by the Résolu fiions Committee.
The Council has noted that whereas Rule XLI of the General Rules of the Organization provided that Chinese, as well as Arabic,. English, French and Spanish, were official languages of the Organization according to Article XXII of the Constitution only the Arabic, English, French and Spanish texts of the Constitution were stated to be equally authoritative.
The Council considered that the Chinese text of the Constitution should have the same authoritative character as the other texts. It accordingly proposed that Article XXII of the Constitution be amended by the insertion of the word "Chinese" after the word "Arabic" in this Article. The Director-General has notified Member Nations of this proposal in acordance with Article XX-4 of the Constitution. The Chinese version of the Constitution, which has been published in the Chinese edition of the Basic Texts, has also been transmitted by the Secretariat to all Member Nations.
The Resolutions Committee has examined the draft resolution regarding this proposed amendment and, as I said before, the text endorsed by that Committee is contained in the Third Report of the Resolutions Committee, document C 77/LIM/33, page 5 of the English text.
CHAIRMAN : Thank you, Legal Counsel. I now give the floor to the delegate of the Peoples Republic of China.
LI CHEN-HUNA (China) (interpretation from Chinese): At the 71st Session of the Council, the Chinese delegation proposed an amendment to Article XXII of the Constitution regarding the authentic texts of the Constitution of the Organization and won the warm support of many delegations. Thereupon, the Council decided to submit to the Conference for consideration and adoption the amendment stipulating that the Chinese text of the Constitution shall be equally authentic.I would like to make the following explanation on this matter.
As we all know, Chinese has always been one of the five official languages of FAO. However, according to the present provisions of Article XXII of the Constitution, only the Chinese text is not equally authentic as are the texts of the other official languages.For reasons known to all, my country could not take part in the activities of FAO for a fairly long period of time with the result that this problem could not be solved sooner. In 1973, my country resumed her activities in this Organization. This year, the Secretariat published the Chineseedition of the "Basic Texts of the Food and Agricul-ture Organization". Therefore, we think it both proper and necessary to amend Article XXII now so that the Chinese text of the Constitution shall be equally authentic. We trust that this proposal of ours will be approved by the current Conference.
CHAIRMAN: This is a matter which is very straightforward and I am sure everybody will approve it, but nevertheless some delegates have asked for the floor and I will give it to them most willingly.
Q. HABIBUL HAQUE (Bangladesh): Mr. Chairman, as you stated rightly that this is a straightforward matter, I shall be extremely brief. The Bangladesh Delegation supports the amendment of Article XXII of the Constitution as recommended by the Council to include Chinese also as one of the authentic texts of the Constitution.I will also include the no. 2 item as to the same status of the Chinese language as the other languages of the Organization.
CHAIRMAN: I see that there iswidespread support for this amendment as has been expressed by Bangladesh and by the following who have briefly taken the floor:Brazil, Pakistan, Nicaragua, Philippines, India, Yugoslavia, Nepal , Lebanon, Liberia, Malta, Mauritania, Gambia, Egypt, Benin, Afghanistan, Mexico, Viet Nam, Nigeria, Ghana, Spain, Kuwait, Libya, Lao, Syria, Zaire, Iraq, Sri Lanka, Tanzania, Mauritius, Burma, Zambia, Panama, Tunisia, Turkey, Burundi, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Chad, Sierra Leone, Bahrain, Indonesia, Czechoslovakia, Mali, Democratic People's Republic of Korea and Hungary.
I can now move to the next item which is the status of languages and this item will be introduced by the Director-General.
DIRECTEUR GENERAL: Vous êtes saisi d'un projet de résolution portant amendement à l'Article XLI du Règlement général et, corrollairement, à d'autres dispositions des textes fondamentaux. Je voudrais retracer brièvement l'historique de cette question.
II y a dix ans, en 1967, la huitième Conférence régionale pour le Proche-Orient, tenue à Khartoum, a recommandé pour la première fois que la langue arabe soit utilisée dans les travaux de la FAO. A la neuvième Conférence régionale, à Bagdad, en 1968, cette recommandation connut un modeste début d'appli-cation.
En raison de leur utilité manifeste pour la pleine participation des Etats Membres arabophones aux délibérations de l'Organisation, les services ide traduction et d'interprétation arabes se sont peu à peu développés. Aujourd'hui, l'interprétation arabe est assurée à la Conférence, au Conseil et à son Comité plénier, aux conférences régionales pour le Proche-Orient, et aux réunions techniques tenues dans cette région. Le programme de traduction arabe au titre du Programme ordinaire est passé de 1 800 000 mots à 2 500 000 mots. Des services d'interprétation et de traduction arabes sont en outre fournis au Programme alimentaire mondial, au Conseil mondial de l'alimentation, et l'ont été à la Commission préparatoire du Fonds international de développement'agricole. Enfin, l'utilisation de l'arabe au Bureau régional du Caire s'est développée, grâce notamment à de généreuses contributions volontaires des Emirats arabes unis, de l'Irak, du Koweït, et de QATAR.
Sur le plan des Textes fondamentaux, la situation n'est pas aussi satisfaisante. Certes, le texte de l'Acte constitutif fait foi dans sa version arabe depuis 1969; certes, l'arabe est devenu langue officielle de l'Organisation aux termes de la Résolution 16-71 de la Conférence; mais la rédaction actuelle de l'Article XLI du Règlement général stipule que, si''l'anglais, l'espagnol, et le français sont des langues de travail" l'arabe "est une langue de travail d'emploi limité".
Monsieur le Président, le moment est venu de supprimer cette situation injustifiée et de donner pleinement droit de cité à la langue arabe, véhicule millénaire de la pensée religieuse et mystique, culturelle et scientifique, utilisée aujourd'hui par 22 de nos Etats Membres et langue liturgique pour 45 pays musulmans.
Tel est le but de l'amendement qui vous est proposé aujourd'hui et qui tend à remplacer la rédaction actuelle de l'Article XLI du Règlement général par le texte suivant::"L'arabe, l'anglais, le chinois, l'espagnol et le français sont les langues de l'Organisation".
Après avoir attentivement étudié la question, le Comité du programme, le Comité financier, le Comité des question constitutionnelles et juridiques et enfin le Conseil à sa soixante et onzième session, ont donné leur aval à cette proposition d'amendement et aux modifications qui en découlent pour d'autres dispositions des textes fondamentaux.
En se prononçant sur ce point le Conseil a estimé qu'il y avait lieu de conserver, en matière d'utilisa-T tion des langues, l'attitude pragmatique déjà préconisée par la Conférence et par lui-même. Nous y sommes résolus, monsieur le Président, et nous continuerons d'agir dans ce sens avec souplesse et sélec-tivité, en prenant comme critère l'utilité pratique des textes et des services d'interprétation pour les Etats Membres.
La Conférence générale de Tunis a souligné que l'élargissement des langues nationales représentait par lui-même un facteur essentiel de développement car il permet de perfectionner les moyens d'expression, de communication et de réflexion, et de faciliter le transfert des technologies. C'est dans cette optique, monsieur le Président, que nous envisageons, l'expansion progressive de l'emploi de la langue arabe à l'Organisation.
CHAIRMAN: This is also a very straightforward matter as explained by the Director-General.
I see that there is widespread support also for these amendments , arid the following countries have expressed their agreement from the floor: Bangladesh, Pakistan, Iran, Spain, Ghana, Gambia, Nicaragua, Tunisia, Libya, Mexico, Malta, Viet Nam, India, Cuba, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Switzerland, Benin, Senegal, Lebanon, Burma, Kuwait, Sierra Leone, Cyprus, Tanzania, Lao, Bulgaria, Turkey, Lesotho, Liberia, Jamaica, Kenya, Yugoslavia, Austria, Chad, Zaire, Uruguay, Mauritania, Zambia, Indonesia, Greece, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Burundi, Philippines, Czechoslovakia, Mali, Hungary, Sri Lanka, People's Republic of Mongolia, Bahrain, Venezuela, Federal Republic of Germany, Panama, Peru, Poland, Chile and Upper Volta.
L. LAPEBY (Gabon): Je voudrais dire avec une satisfaction particulière que je vois enfin aujourd'hui un amendement qui ferait l'unanimité. En effet, il y a tout de même quelque temps que nous avons .pose ce problème de langues et tant à la Conférence qu'au Conseil la délégation gabonaise a toujours estimé qu'il ne devrait pas y avoir de discrimination entre Les langues. Je suis donc heureux que ce problème soit résolu et j 'apporte mon plein appui.
S.H. AL-SHAKIR (Iraq) (interpretation from Arabie): I want to thank all colleagues who have supported this ever since this question was first submitted at the 61st Session of the Council and to all those who use this language today, there are 22 states, aside from the use of this language in other countries in Asia and Africa, I would like to say that the Arabic language in its use, its technical content, and its use in various organizations will make it possible for the delegations to take an active part in the work of these organizations and they will be able to participate more fully in the Arabic-speaking countries when there are draft reports and other documents because this will be an additional link for all information to all those who work in the agricultural sector.
I would like to thank the Director-General of this Organization for having studied this subject of the use of the Arabic language. We know there are difficulties but we hope that when we adopt this resolution and in future budgets we will be able to make use of Arabic at all meetings and the technical committees and in all reports and all relations between the Organization and the Arabic-speaking nations.
H. ABDALLA (Egypt) (interpretation from Arabic): We would like to express our satisfaction at the fact that the Director-General has presented this subject to us and that we finally come to the end of the road travelled by the Arabic language for 10 years. We are grateful to the Director-General for having presented this subject in such an historical fashion, that is, the stages that the Arabic language has gone through within the Organization and the fact that he spoke to us about the historic role played by this language and which it continues to play.
We would also like to take advantage of this opportunity to thank the international community for having supported the proposal in favour of the Arabic language ever since this subject appeared on the horizon ten years ago.
S. JUMA'A (interpretation from Arabic): It goes without saying that I support the proposal. I have some observations, or rather some questions to ask. First I would like to say that this amendment means that all documents will be prepared - documents in the Conference will be prepared -, the committees of the Council will reproduce in Arabic. But there is no reference to the Council for organization of such and all the other bodies which are part of the Organization. It goes without saying that the work of the Council is of capital importance and all the documents must be made available to Arabic-speaking delegates in their language. So all the documents should be made available without any exception. Furthermore, there are many documents at the present Conference which were not made available to members in Arabic. It is therefore very difficult for Arabic-speaking countries to follow the discussions and to participate in the work actively.
Then the second question is that this amendment still leaves discrimination between languages because it says that all the agreements will be drafted in English, French and Spanish. So there is still a discrimination in connection with the Arabic language.
My third observation is that it is obvious that this amendment cannot be implemented if all the tools are not available and we know that the department in charge of the Arabic translations consists of a very small number of officials. And I don't think that this small number of officials can do the work which is required. And this is why I would like to ask Mr. Mandefield to reply to this observation and I would like to thank the Director-General very particularly for having introduced this matter and for having given it such importance not just for members of the Arab world but because it is a field of importance and validity which must be safeguarded without exception.
H.W. MANDEFIELD (Sous-Directeur general, Département des affaires genérales et de l'information): L'amendement de l'Article XLI est de caractère constitutionnel et juridique. L'Article XLI a un caractère facultatif. L'amendement qui le modifie ne préjuge pas de l'emploi qui en est fait. Comme l'a fait observer le Comité des questions constitutionnelles et juridiques, tout est limité, ici-bas, et la limitation est précisée pour chaque exercice biennal par le Programme de travail et budget.
Au programme 5.1.4 (page 182 du texte français du Budget), qui a été examiné ces jours-ci par la Commission II, il est précisé que le quantum de la traduction arabe sera augmenté d'un tiers, c'est-à-dire de 2,5 à 3,5 millions de mots. Quant aux amendements corollaires, ils se rapportent à des textes généralement anciens, formulés et adoptés au moment où l'arabe 'n'était pas une langue de travail de l'Organisation.
M, EL DALAI I (Syria) (interpretation from Arabic): Mr. Chairman, on behalf of my delegation I formally thank the Director-General for the way in which he has introduced this question - the use of Arabic in our Organization. I would like to express my appreciation to all those who have given us support concerning the use of the Arabic language at international level.
B. de AZEVEDO BRITO (Brazil): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We should also like formally to support the proposed amendment and we very much hope that Portuguese will be next in line as we have many Portuguese-speaking countries here now.
CHANG SHIH-CHAN (China) (interpretation from Chinese): The Chinese delegation agrees to the amendment of Rule XLI of the GRO.
J.S.AL-SIRKALL(United Arab Emirates)(interpretation from Arabic): We requested the floor some time ago,, Mr. Chairman.It seems the Secretariat did not take note of our request.
Be this as it may, I should first like to congratulate you on your chairmanship of this Commission, since I am taking the floor for the first time.
Secondly, my delegation would like to present to the Director-General our sincere thanks for the efforts he has made to have the Arabic language made an official language in this Organization.My delegation would also like to support the amendment regarding the use of the Chinese language on an equal footing with the other languages.
Since Arabic is our official language, we should also like to associate ourselves with the other speakers supporting the proposed amendment.
S. JUMA'A (Jordan) (interpretation from Arabic):I would like to thank Mr Mandefield for his replies but we are not quite clear, as I raised a question regarding the Council documents and he did not reply to this.I also spoke about Conventions - not the past Conventions, but Conventions which would be concluded in the future. We have heard that these Conventions would be translated into English, Spanish and French. Arabic and Chinese were not quoted.
I would also like to ask Mr. Mandefield to be good enough to tell us if we have sufficient budgetary appropriations for these tasks. I would like to know whether documents will be presented in the Arabic language or not.
H.W. MANDEFIELD (Sous-Directeur general, Département des Affaires générales et de l'Information): Pour les conventions qui doivent être rédigées à l'avenir, je pense que leurs auteurs décideront si elles sont effectivement une portée territoriale qui intéresse les pays de langue arabe, auquel cas il ira de soi que ces textes seront également établis dans cette langue.En tout cas, rien ne l'interdira.
En ce qui concerne l'allocation de 3 500 000 mots, elle suffira à traduire en arabe tous les documents importants de la Conférence et du Conseil. Nous avons déjà commencé, et nous pensons qu'il y a là un nouveau progrès, un pas en avant, dans la direction que nous avons déjà prise il y a plusieurs années.
Le Conseil et la Conférence elle-même ont toujours maintenu, et ont récemment réaffirmé la nécessité d'une attitude pragmatique, de façon à traduire les documents qui sont utiles. Nous les traduirons dans toute la mesure où les ressources à notre disposition le permettront.
CHAIRMAN: Before we close this item, I will invite the Director-General to take the floor.
DIRECTEUR GENERAL (interprétation de l'arabe): Je suis heureux, en cette occasion historique, d'exprimer mes remerciements à tous les membres des délégations qui ont appuyé la proposition qui tend à faire de l'arabe une langue de travail et une langue officielle, sur un pied d'égalité avec les autres: anglais, espagnol, français et chinois.
A l'occaion de l'introduction de l'arabe comme langue officielle et langue de travail, je voudrais également féliciter à cette occasion tous les pays arabes,ainsi que les autres pays qui ont des liens spirituels et religieux avec la langue arabe.
Je ferai tout ce qui sera en mon pouvoir pour mettre en application la décision que vous venez de prendre.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, distinguished Delegates. That concludes pur discussion on this item..,
The Meeting rose at 18.15 hours.
La seance est levée à 18 h 15
Se levanta la sesión a las 18.15 horas
