- Draft resolution Key Role of Forestry in Rural Development and its Long-term Aspects
- Projet de résolution sur le role décisif de la foresterie dans le développement rural dans l'immédiat et à long terme
- Proyecto de resolución sobre la importancia esencial de la silvicultura para el desarrollo rural y sus aspectos a largo plazo
LE PRESIDENT: Nous allons commencer par la résolution. Il s'agit de la résolution sur le role décisif de la foret dans le développement rural dans l'immédiat et à long terme. Cette résolution nous est présentée sous la cote C 81/LIM/32. Cette résolution a été présentée par les délégations du Canada, de la Cote-d'Ivoire, de l'Indonésie, de la Norvège, des Pays-Bas et de la Zambie. Elle est soumise à la Commission afin d'être discutée. Le débat est ouvert sur cette résolution et nous donnerons la parole à qui la demandera.
H. K. SEIP (Norway): During the debate on energy questions last week Zambia announced that the resolution on the role of forestry was coming up. As Zambia is not present here at the moment, Norway would like, as one of the sponsors, to present to you a proposal for a resolution on the key role of forestry in rural development and its long-term aspects. A group of interested delegates, mainly foresters, found that more emphasis had been put on forestry in this Conference than before, and thought that this interest should be marked by a resolution. The text before you is the result of that discussion and it is my hope that there will be consensus about a text along these lines.
D. R. SHARMA (Nepal): The resolution in front of us we feel is very timely and my delegation feels that this is of very considerable importance, especially in the context of the developing countries with better forest potentialities. We in Nepal have a saying that the green forest of Nepal is the wealth of our nation, which was very true till the last decade. Because of the ever growing population and other factors the forest wealth is being lost and its effect is very strongly felt. If I may be allowed to say so nowhere else in the world is forestry more important than in Nepal. The world's largest forestry area, the Himalayas are in Nepal needing protection against ecological and environmental damage. We also have a predominantly rural population dependent on the forest for food, for timber, for raw materials, for. smaller household industry, fuelwood and what have you. The twofold emphasis in the resolution on environmental aspects and on forestry for rural development is well placed. These should be the cornerstones of any forestry policy. Therefore the Nepal Delegation fully supports the resolution on the key role of forestry in rural development and its long-term aspects.
H. MAURIA (Finland): During this Conference all the Nordic countries, Denmark, Finland and Norway, who just introduced the resolution, and Sweden have noted with satisfaction that the significance of forests for development, particularly for rural development has been widely recognized by a great number of delegates in their statements. As far as we can see forestry has never before in an FAO Conference met with such strong support as during this Conference. As traditional forestry countries, and having experience since long ago of the potentialities of the forests when building up the national economic and social welfare, the Nordic countries welcome sincerely the fundamental approval forestry has received at this Conference. We consider it an indication of the key role of forestry in rural development.
The implementation of the political will in member countries regarding the various functions of the forests so that forestry can be taken into account as an integral part of national and rural development activities is a complex task.
We want to draw attention here to only one particular forestry aspect which should be understood by the respective decision makers at governmental and rural administrative levels, namely, the need for long-term planning and management of forestry. This aspect is duly brought into the draft resolution.
On behalf of the Nordic countries I wish to confirm our full support for the draft Resolution.
M. KRIESBERG (United States of America): Our delegation is in general support of this draft Resolution. We would, however, like to suggest some minor modifications which we think would lend clarity and improve the present form of the draft Resolution.
Our suggestion is that in the last preambular paragraph, which starts "Recognizing the leading role of FAO. . . ", we should add the words "within the United Nations system".
We would also suggest that there might be introduced in the same line, after the words "in forestry", the words "and primary forestry industries", indicating the relationship between forestry and the employment potential of forestry for rural development. The paragraph would then read:
"Recognizing the leading role of FAO within the United Nations system in forestry and primary forest industries and rural development. "
Our second suggestion relates to operative paragraph 1 which "calls upon governments to take into account the key role of forestry. . . ". We would agree with the election of the words within brackets and the acceptance of the phrase which is underlined. That is not so much a change as an indication of agreement with the proposal in the draft Resolution as we understand it.
LE PRESIDENT: Je crois que vous avez noté la suggestion des Etats-Unis d'Amérique, il s'agit du dernier "Reconnaissant", après "Reconnaissant le rôle pilote qui incombe à la FAO", les Etats-Unis proposent qu'on ajoute: ". . . dans le système des Etats-Unis", et pour le mot "foresterie" ils proposent qu'on le remplace par: "industries forestières primaires". Ce sont là des suggestions. Les délégués qui veulent intervenir pourront dire s'ils sont d'accord ou non.
S. P. MUKERJI (India): My delegation fully supports the draft resolution on forestry in rural develop ment. Our Prime Minister is particularly keen on the protection and conservation of forests in our country, which, unfortunately, today accounts for less than the fifty perdent of the geographical area of ecology and agriculture. You will be glad to know that the Central Government in India has put a ban on the conversion of forest areas to non-forest purposes except with the permission of the Central Government, because we feel that with the increasing pressure of population on land there is a ten dency on the part of the various State and Provincial Governments to take the soft option of cutting down the forests and increasing the area under cultivation. Instead of trying to do multiple croppings and increasing the yield per hectare, the general tendency is to enclose the forest area and do cultivation.
We also have recognized very deeply that afforestation has a very important role to play so far as soil conservation is concerned and with deforestation going on in the Himalayan region the frequency of floods in the riparian basins has increased.
We have also recognized that forests provide a habitat for a number of species of animals and birds, and it will be a sad day if forests are lost and the habitats of these important species is lost along with them. The primary importance of afforestation is in the supply of fuel wood and it is said that there may come a time, if we are not careful, when we will have enough food after cultivation but no fuel to cook that food; therefore the primary importance of social forestry in the rural setting is being recognized and extended with all the vigour and energy at our command in our country and social forestry has become one of the main plans of rural development. My delegation is very glad that the involvement of the rural population in afforestation has been indicated in this draft Resolution.
My delegation fully agrees with the delegate of the United States that in the first substantive paragraph the portion which is underlined should be substituted for the phrase within brackets so that the paragraph would read:
"Calls upon Governments to take into account the key role of forestry in rural development and to devise and pursue policies to preserve the environmental and ecological heritage, so that the resources of nature are handed down to posterity;"
We fully agree with the United States that the underlined portion should be retained and as regards the other suggestion by the United States we have no objection to the sentence being amplified by adding ''within the United Nations system".
As regards forestry industries, I thought "forestry" was a comprehensive term and that industries based on forestry could easily be included within the existing wording.
J. SCHERER (Federal Republic of Germany) (Original language German): My delegation shares the opinion expressed that forestry is of great importance for rural development. The German delegation has al-readv stated in Plenary that there is a serious danger if the destruction of forests continues without reafforestation. That might entail a sort of general desertification. Furthermore, that could have the effect of considerably disturbing the ecological balance.
The Federal Republic of Germany is ready to give more substantial development aid in the field of forestry. My delegation therefore supports the text with the deletion of the words within brackets.
Furthermore, my delegation has no difficulty in accepting the suggestions made by the delegation of the United States.
Mrs. G. SOTO (Cuba): La delegación cubana apoya la Resolución sobre la importancia esencial de la silvi cultura para el desarrollo rural y sus aspectos a corto y largo plazo.
El gobierno de Cuba tiene muy en cuenta la importancia esencial de la silvicultura para la ordenación de las zonas rurales y, en general, para el desarrollo rural analizado de manera integral, y está desarrollando politícas nacionales destinadas a conservar el patrimonio ambiental y ecológico, espe cialmente a través de la conservación de los bosques. En esta tarea tan importante contamos también con la ayuda de la FAO.
Teniendo en cuenta la importancia que tiene el desarrollo de la silvicultura para todos los países subdesarrollados, especialmente para las comunidades que se ven afectadas por la falta de los grandes beneficios que proporcionan los bosques tanto desde el punto de vista socioeconómico como del desarrollo rural en general, mi delegación considera muy pertinente la aprobación de la Resolución que analizamos en el documento C 81/LIM/32. Sin embargo, Sr. Presidente, tengo una duda con relación a algunos planteamientos que se han hecho en el debate.
En realidad, yo no soy especialista en silvicultura, y quisiera que se me aclarara si las industrias primarias quedan comprendidas dentro de la silvicultura en general. Por lo demás, mi delegación repito apoya la resolución que estamos analizando.
R. ROSE (Canada): As you know, Mr. Chairman, Canada is one of the sponsors of this draft resolution. The Canadian delegation very much supports the philosophy behind the draft resolution and the change in the first operative paragraph proposed by the Resolutions Committee. One of the objectives of the draft resolution is to integrate the role of forestry more closely into the rural development process in all its aspects, recognising the job-creation role, the infrastructurai development that results from forestry activities, and so on. We therefore also support the proposed changes suggested by the delegation of the United States of America.
S. SUNAGA (Japan): My delegation, like the previous speakers, fully supports this resolution as modified by the delegate of the United States.
J. ROWINSKI (Poland): This is a very fine resolution, of importance not only for the developing countries but also for the developed ones. Poland would be very glad to have an opportunity to co-sponsor this resolution.
We think that the amendments proposed by the delegate of the United States clarify the text, and also that, in the first operational paragraph, the text in brackets should be deleted.
S. HEIDSMA (Netherlands): As one of the co-sponsors of this resolution, we can fully support the text. The improvements made by the resolutions Committee seem to make the text much clearer. As far as the amendments proposed by the delegate of the United States are concerned, we can support them although we feel that the addition of the phrase "primary forest industries" does not seem to be absolutely necessary. We do not however object to it.
I. OUMAROU (Niger): Cette résolution vient à point nommé car le problème de foresterie se pose avec acuité dans mon pays à telle enseigne que le bois de chauffe devient un problème. Avec la sécheresse que connaît le Sahel, la désertification menace le Niger. Le texte souligne bien les problêmes. La délégation du Niger donne son appui ferme à cette résolution et accepte la proposition des Etats-Unis.
J. NGOULOU (Congo): La délégation congolaise s'associe aux autres délégations qui ont bien voulu soutenir le projet de résolution sur le rôle décisif de la foresterie dans le développement rural dans l'immédiat et a long terme.
La République populaire du Congo, dont 60 pour cent de sa superficie est occupée par les forêts, estime que les dispositions prises dans cette résolution rencontrent en plusieurs points notre politique d'exploitation des ressources forestières.
Quant aux amendements de la délégation américaine, nous disons qu'ils sont exacts mais il faut en outre noter que ceux-ci n'influent pas sur le fond de la résolution.
S. SABER (Iraq)(Original language Arabie): The northern area of Iraq has been known for a long time as an area covered by forests. This was a rural part of the country, which represented important resources in terms of livestock and rich soil. This area also supplied the country with fuel wood, and that is why the 1981/85 Plan accorded great importance to the question of forestry conservation. We therefore firmly support this Resolution, and also the suggestion that we should delete the words in brackets in paragraph 1.
Srta. Z. KARAM DUAJI (Venezuela): Señor Presidente: mi delegación apoya el texto del proyecto de reso lución sobre la silvicultura para el desarrollo rural y propondría una modificación en la última frase del punto 1, si es posible ya a estas alturas. Donde dice "que los recursos de la naturaleza", en ese mismo párrafo diríamos "que los recursos naturales puedan ser utilizados sabiamente por la generación actual", a fin de que se transmitan a la posterioridad". Creo que es una redacción un poco más apropiada.
H. MOHAMADI BATAIK (Sudan) (Original language Arabic): My delegation has emphasized the importance of forestry for the agricultural and integrated rural development, and also the need to survey forestry resources and the distribution of the different types and species of trees. My delegation would like to stress the need of prohibiting the excessive use of trees for fuel wood because this is incompatible with natural and industrial afforestation. Therefore my delegation has requested the FAO and the other bodies concerned to help the Sudan and other developing countries in order to survey forests and the ecosystem in order to provide food for this generation and future generations. Thus my delegation fully supports this draft Resolution with the amendment which has been suggested by the delegate of the United States. At the same time, my delegation supports the drafting amendment submitted by the delegate of Venezuela.
M. S. CUADRA (Nicaragua): Señor Presidente: Nuestro país es un país con grandes recursos forestales, que durante más de 40 años de dominación fueron saqueados por compañías que jamás se preocuparon por su conservación y renovación, causando esto un gran daño a nuestra economía. Nuestro Gobierno revoluciona rio, teniendo como una de sus principales metas racionales la explotación de nuestros recursos naturales en beneficio de nuestro pueblo, se ha impuesto la tarea de impulsar los programas que permitan lograr los objetivos antes mencionados.
Reconocemos la enorme importancia de la silvicultura para el desarrollo rural, así como el papel que la FAO ha jugado en esta área. La delegación de Nicaragua desea, por tanto, apoyar la resolución que hoy discutimos y no tiene ningún inconveniente en adoptar la enmienda propuesta por la delegación de Venezuela.
W. E. ADERO (Kenya): My delegation supports the Resolution on the key role of forestry in rural develop ment and its long-term aspects. My delegation also agrees with the Drafting Committee's suggestion that the words contained in brackets be deleted, and we have no difficulty in supporting the amendment suggested by the delegate of the United States.
M. MARANGOUDAKIS (Greece): My delegation, recognizing the key role of forestry in rural development and its long-term aspects, fully supports this Resolution. My delegation further agrees with the other delegations concerning the deletion of the words contained in the square brackets, and accepts the amendment proposed by the delegate of the United States.
Miss N. RAYEL (Ireland): My delegation joins with other delegations in supporting this Resolution, together with the amendments proposed by the delegates of the United States and Venezuela-although I do wonder at the necessity of including the phrase "primary forest industries":surely the word "forestry" covers all forestry industries.
J. DUBE (Swaziland): Recognizing the importance of forestry in Swaziland and in the Third World as a whole, my delegation attaches very great importance of adopting this Resolution before us. My delegation also has no problem in accepting the amendment suggested by the delegate of the United States, except that we also do not see much necessity for the addition of the last change involving the words "primary forest industries". We also accept the suggestion of the delegate of Venezuela.
J. B. JACKMAN (New Zealand): My delegation supports the general theme of this Resolution, and supports the amendment proposed by the delegate of the United States. We particularly support the inclusion of the words "primary forest industries", which has been questioned by some delegations, on the grounds that it has the added value that accrues at the later stages of processing, which is a very large proportion of the eventual value of forest products which go into manufacturing uses. For this reason we think it would be a very good idea to retain that particular component, because it focuses on this aspect of forestry.
Referring to the very first paragraph of this Resolution, we also think it would be perhaps advantageous to give it a little bit more weight by specifying some more of the functions which forests fulfill. These include such things as shelter, land stabilization, water quality enhancement-and are also of course forest ecological reserves. We feel that this particular key paragraph in the Resolution would have more impact on the people at whom it is directed if there was a broadening of the functions which are specified here.
Therefore I would propose the addition, after "building materials", of the words "shelter, land stabilization, water quality enhancement, and forest ecological reserves".
LE PRESIDENT: Avec l'intervention du délègue de la Nouvelle-Zélande s'achève ma liste des inter venants sur cette question. Je crois qu'il y a un certain nombre de décisions que nous pourrions obtenir du Sous-directeur général, chef du Département de la foresterie, notamment des précisions concernant "l'industrie forestière primaire" à côté de "foresterie". Je crois que cette question étant technique, nous pouvons faire confiance à M. Rodas pour nous éclairer à ce sujet;il y a également un certain nombre de précisions qui ont été apportées et sur lesquelles, me semble-t-il, tout le monde ici est d'accord.
M. A. FLORES RODAS(Subdirector General, Departamento de Montes): Señor Presidente: El distinguido delegado de Nueva Zelandia creo que dio una definición clara de la idea de por qué la importancia de incluir el término "industrias forestales primarias". Además, yo quisiera agregar que, dentro de lo que se habla del papel de líder que tiene la FAO dentro de la familia de Naciones Unidas, es impor tante mencionar "industrias forestales primarias', ya que existe otra Organización de Naciones Unidas que tiene que ver con la llamada industria forestal secundaria; es decir, fabricación de muebles, elementos de construcción, etc. etc. Pero el objetivo principal, aunque dentro del término general de la ciencia forestal, que incluye por definición la industria forestal, no necesariamente debe incluirse en los conceptos en general de uso diario. Por esta razón y considerando, como decía la distinguida delegada de Nueva Zelandia, que la industria primaria es aquella que tiene relaciones, primero, directas sobre el recurso forestal y su ordenación y persistencia; y segundo, que es la que tiene importancia directa sobre el desarrollo rural en las industrias rurales y cualquier otro tipo de industria que aplique directamente al recurso forestal.
Creo que al momento de aislarse y resaltar la capacidad de la industria primaria como fuente básica de empleo y fuente básica de producción de beneficio del recurso a la industria, estamos aceptando la definición y el concepto dado por la distinguida delegada de Venezuela en el uso sabio y correcto del recurso en beneficio de las generaciones futuras.
De otra parte, señor Presidente, si no se incluyeran las industrias primarias, volveríamos al punto de qué va a vivir la gente rural. No existiría fundamento alguno de rentas y empleo para las personas rurales del bosque y produciría, por lo tanto, la desaparición del bosque al momento de que éste no signifique ninguna renta para ellos mismos.
No sé si con esto, señor Presidente, he aclarado un poco las dudas de la distinguida representante de Venezuela.
LE PRESIDENT : M. Rodas, le spécialiste, nous a éclairés sur ces différents points et je pense effectivement que, compte tenu du fait qu'il n'y a pas eu d'opposition systématique sur ces termes,-mais ceux qui avaient posé la question l'avaient posée pour obtenir une clarification-nous pouvons donc considérer que cela a été adopté. Tous les ajouts ont été faits ici dans l'esprit de clarifier notre texte et nous pouvons admettre que le texte corrigé de cette manière peut maintenant être adopté au niveau de notre Commission.
S'il n'y pas d'objection, nous pouvons considérer que notre résolution est adoptée.
It was so decided.
Il en est ainsi décidé.
Así se acuerda.
LE PRESIDENT : Après l'adoption de cette résolution nous arrivons donc à d'autres points de notre ordre du jour concernant l'adoption de notre rapport.
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committee): Thank you for giving me the floor. As you all realize the Drafting Committee comprises the following countries: Malaysia, Australia, France, India, Lesotho, Mexico, Trinidad, Tobago, USA, Venezuela, United Arab Republic and Yugoslavia. The Drafting Committee under my tuition, began work on the 17 November and completed our work at 7. 30 p. m. on Friday, 20 November. Although there have been intense discussions on several points and issues we have never theless come to a consensus on almost all points as reflected in the report. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the members of the Drafting Committee for their cooperation and hard work and understanding, and also to thank the Secretariat for their assistance throughout the deliberations of the Drafting Committee. The Draft Report of Commission I C 81/1/REP/1, C 81/I/REP/2 and C 81/I/REP/3 in which the Drafting Committee reflects the deliberations and the opinions of the Commission this year presents this to you for its consideration and approval.
LE PRESIDENT: Je vais inviter les membres de la Commission à prendre le REP/1. Nous allons le passer en revue paragraphe par paragraphe.
PARAGRAPHS 1 to 33
PARAGRAPHES 1 à 33
PARRAFOS 1 a 33
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba):Párrafo 3: posiblemente se trate de una cuestión del idioma español. La última oración comienza: "Los países de bajos ingresos, . . . en particular tenían capacidad limitada para enfrentar esos problemas". Y dice "así es que eran más vulnerables". A nosotros nos parece que quedaría más elegante en español diciendo: "siendo por consiguiente más vulnerables".
LE PRESIDENT:C'est un petit amendement. Je pense que le Secretariat l'a noté. Il s'agit seulement du texte espagnol. Y a-t-il d'autres interventions? Bien. Ce paragraphe est adopté avec un léger amendement concernant le texte espagnol.
J. DUBE (Swaziland): I am going to comment a little bit on paragraph 4. I think it is a typographical error on the second line of paragraph 4, where it says "equally be" it should be "by".
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba):Del párrafo 5, la última oración, que comienza:"Diversos miembros señalaron la gran cantidad de alimentos que se perdían, etc. , etc. " A nosotros nos parece que sería más real si se dijera: "Se señaló la gran cantidad . . . ", que nos da una idea un poco más de amplitud. 0 sea que la propia Comisión señalóla gran cantidad de alimentos que se perdían después de la cosecha. ¿Está claro?
LE PRESIDENT:Vous avez entendu l'amendement de Mme le délégué de Cuba. Y a-t-il d'autres objections?
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): En el párrafo 6, sin embargo, se nos dice que la Conferencia expresó su satisfac ción por la importancia de la cumbre de Cancún. En realidad, según las notas que yo tengo, fueron algunos delegados los que expresaron su satisfacción por la importancia, etc. , etc. , de la cumbre en Cancún. Otros delegados, inclusive en la Plenaria, calificaron la cumbre de Cancún como un rotundo fracaso. Yo no tengo preparado texto alguno, pero me preocupa que este párrafo en realidad no refleje bien lo que sucedió en la Comisión.
LE PRESIDENT: Y a-t-il d'autres façons de voir le problème? Pas d'interventions?
R. E. STENSHOLT (Australia): When we were discussing paragraph 6 in the Drafting Committee I do recall, as does my Cuban colleague, that there were various views put on the results of the summit, but I cannot remember anyone saying about the importance attached to the measures regarding world agricultural development and world food security given in that summit or anyone expressing'disagreement with that. In fact, I think the opposite was the case. Again and again people referred to the paragraphs in the co-Chairman's summary and said how important they were.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): Señor Presidente, yo solamente quería que se analizara un poco más el párrafo y que reflejara exactamente lo que sucedió en el Plenario. Esa era mi preocupación. Por lo demás estoy de acuerdo.
LE PRESIDENT: Le Secrétariat a pris note et va améliorer le texte du paragraphe 6 pour en rendre fidèlement compte. Etes-vous d'accord?
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): Yo podría estar de acuerdo, si ese párrafo expresara mejor lo que exactamente sucedió. Repito que no tengo ahora un texto que ofrecer; pero desde luego tenemos plena confianza en lo que sucedió en el Comité de Redacción y reconocemos su competencia. No tenemos pues ninguna objeción que hacer con el trabajo de ese Comité.
LE PRESIDENT: Donc paragraphe 6 est approuvé.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): El párrafo 7, que en realidad es un párrafo muy corto, dice: "Se lamentó en general la persistente falta, etc. , etc. " Nosotros propondríamos se dijera: "La Conferencia lamentó la persistente falta, etc. , etc. "
B. R. FURNESS (United States of America): This subject as well was discussed at considerable length in the Drafting Committee. The present wording, we believe, reflects both the tenor of the discussion in the plenary sessions of Commission I and the results of the Drafting Committee's consideration of this particular subject and we would very much prefer to leave the wording as it is drafted.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): Yo creo que la discusión ésta no es un problema de preferencias. Creo mejor que es un problema de expresar en realidad lo que sucedió y por otra parte que este documento sea un docu mento fuerte, que no sea un documento inferior a otros documentos de Conferencias de la FAO celebradas en períodos anteriores.
En realidad, yo repito que admiro el trabajo del Comité de Redacción, sé que es un trabajo arduo el que tiene, un trabajo de muchas horas, inclusive para ponerse de acuerdo en una sola palabra; pero, si vamos a hablar de preferencias, mi delegación preferiría que se dijera: "La Conferencia lamentó la persistente falta, etc. , etc. ".
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committee): I would also like to say that the general feeling of the Drafting Committee was to be more indirect. It is the expression "The continuing absence of a consensus" which was the Conference itself. It was the feeling of the Drafting Committee. Now if there is a different view this would have to be discussed further.
LE PRESIDENT:Puisqu'il n'y a pas d'autres avis, je vais demander à Mme le délégué de Cuba si nous pouvons avancer avec ce texte et en terminer?
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba):Sí, señor Presidente; si el deseo de la Comisión es seguir adelante con ese texto, podemos continuar. Pero repito que mi delegación preferiría se dijera: "La Conferencia . . . "; pero no vamos a hacer de esto un gran problema.
LE PRESIDENT: Adopté. Paragraphe 8:
V. STIPETIC (Yugoslavia):I suggest that in line 7 (of the English text) in the sentence which starts "In some countries this may call for review of strategies, plans and programmes for food production. . . " the following words should be added:"economic and population policies". I believe this is a question of the economic policy, the general framework of an economic policy of a given country, and for that reason, I would insert those two words "economic and population policies" and the text should then follow as it is.
LE PRESIDENT:Y a-t-il des observations à ajouter? Adopté.
Paragraphe 9: Adopté.
Paragraphe 10: Adopté.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): Sobre el párrafo 11, en el texto español me parece que se repite "tomo en cono cimiento el descenso considerable". Me parece que el texto en español se podría mejorar un poco más. No es cuestión de contenido, sino simplemente de forma de expresión; por lo que yo me ofrezco para pasar una nota al respecto.
LE PRESIDENT: Le Secrétariat prendra note de votre nouveau texte. Y a-t-il d'autres interventions?
R. ROSE (Canada): My concern lies with the last sentence of paragraph 11. During the Commission I believe that many delegates spoke in support of the need certainly to support fertilizer requirements for the developing countries, not only through the IFS but also bilaterally. I would suggest that we insert a phrase following the word "support" so that the sentence would read: "It urged donors to support" then add:"fertilizer requirements in the developing countries, either bilaterally or in" then we would continue "the IFS. " This would recognize that donor countries have the option of either bilateral support or multilateral through the IFS.
LE PRESIDENT:Il y a une proposition qui vient d'être faite par le délégué du Canada. Y a-t-il des objections?. . .
G. SOTO (Cuba): El párrafo 12, Sr. Presidente, se refiere específicamente al mandato de la Conferencia Mundial de Reforma Agraria y Desarrollo Rural, y comienza diciendo "Muchos miembros hicieron hincapié". . .
Nosotros entendemos que debe decirse "La Conferencia hizo hincapié". . .
La palabra "paliar", en español no es apropiada en este caso. Puede entenderse por "aliviar", no por "eliminar". Por eso estimamos que el párrafo debe quedar en la siguiente forma: "La Conferencia hizo hincapié en el mandato de la Conferencia Mundial de Reforma Agraria y Desarrollo Rural de eliminar la pobreza", etcétera. El resto del párrafo igual. El variar "hizo" en vez de "hicieron" es simplemente cuestión de concordancia.
En realidad, Sr. Presidente, se trata de un problema de traducción.
LE PRESIDENT:En effet, ce n'est pas un problème de traduction parce que dans le texte français c'est "soulager".
Pas d'objections?. .
B. R. FURNESS (United States of America): To take them in order, paragraph 12. The Drafting Committee's version of this particular paragraph again I believe reflects the tenor of the discussion in the Commission itself better than the amendments proposed by the distinguished Delegate of Cuba. We should also take note of the extensive discussion of the subject in Commission II but we believe that it is accurate to say that many members emphasized the WCARRD mandate, not the Conference, and that it is entirely appropriate to use the words "alleviating poverty", since we do not find it within the WCARRD mandate to eliminate poverty. Thus we support paragraph 12 as it was drafted and approved by the Drafting Committee.
LE PRESIDENT: Il y a deux avis, il convient à la Commission de les départager.
O. M. SELIKANE (Lesotho): We also would prefer that it should remain as it is because it does reflect the discussions. It was not everyone who emphasized, it was many members.
R. ROSE (Canada): I would agree with the intervention from Lesotho. I recall the discussions in the Conference and do not believe that it was at all a unanimous concern. I would support the paragraph as it was drafted by the Drafting Committee.
LE PRESIDENT:Il y a un petit litige, faut-il mettre "la Conférence"? Je pense qu'on peut laisser "De nombreux membres'', à moins que nous prenions une forme impersonnelle pour rendre cette phrase. Je vais passer la parole au président du Comité de rédaction.
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committee) : Maybe there is a way to wriggle out of this very small impasse. Maybe we could start the paragraph something like this:"Emphasis was generally placed on the WCARRD mandate in alleviating poverty" etc.
LE PRESIDENT: Que pensez-vous de cette proposition?. . .
V. VOCILKA (Czechoslovakia): I would suggest that we leave, in the first sentence of paragraph 13, the word "some" because it would more reflect the discussion in our Commission and also in Commission TT. because it was limited here by the word "some". The first sentence "in some developing countries" not the developing countries in general leaving out the word "some".
LE PRESIDENT: Il y a une suggestion, qu'en pensent les autres membres de la Commission?
G. SOTO (Cuba): Estoy de acuerdo con la propuesta de Checoslovaquia, Sr. Presidente.
M. C. DIALLO (Guinée): Je n'étais pas au Comité de rédaction, mais je voudrais défendre le point de vue exprimé ici, c'est que nous sommes souvent noyés dans ces problèmes de réforme agraire et de développement rural; or il existe des pays en voie de développement, particulièrement dans la zone africaine ou le problème de la réforme agraire, dans le sens dans lequel il est posé en Asie et en Amérique latine, n'existe pas du tout. Maintenant je n'ai pas d'"objection à ce qu'on l'étende, mais je pense que c'est dans cet esprit que la restriction a été faite.
J. NGOULOU (Congo):C'est un problème de terminologie;en effet dans les politiques de réforme agraire il est très souvent inclus les termes de ''distribution des terres'', or il s'agit ici dans le paragraphe 13 des termes "distribution des terres et la réforme agraire", est-ce que ce terme "distri bution des terres" n'entre pas dans la terminologie de "réforme agraire"? C'est un point d'inter rogation que je pose à la Commission.
CD. SANCHEZ-AVALOS (Argentina): Simplemente desearía proponer que se mantenga la redacción que fue elaborada por el Comité de Redacción. En primer término, porque es verdad que no todos los países en desarrollo requieren las medidas que se especifican a los efectos de aumentar la producción agrícola. Y, en segundo término, porque entre las decisiones que se adoptaron oportunamente en la Conferencia Mundial de Reforma Agraria y Desarrollo Rural, la distribución de tierras tampoco fue considerada como una medida genérica y necesaria para la totalidad de los países en desarrollo.
C. de MELO (Brasil): Solamente para decir que mi delegación está de acuerdo con lo que ha dicho Argentina.
S. P. MUKERJI (India): My suggestions for this opening sentence are as follows. I would suggest that instead of the words "Land distribution and agrarian reform" the words "Agrarian and land reforms" would be a happier reflection of the general feelings in the various countries, especially when we are trying to make this formula inclusive of all developing countries. I think it would not be very proper to include the words "Land distribution" as a specific panacea for all developing countries because in certain developing countries where the pressure of population on land may not be very high it is not merely land distribution that is very germane but proper utilization of land and giving the right of cultivation to the land tiller would be more important than a blind distribution of all the land to all the people because there may be some people who do not have sufficient resources for cultivating the land given to them and as a result of that it is possible that in certain developing countries because of lack of resources the land may remain unutilized and production may suffer. In order to comprehend the problems of land-intensive areas as well as population- intensive areas it would be better to use the words "Agrarian and land reforms" instead of "Land distribution and agrarian reform". I feel "Land distribution" is too specific a focus which may not be relevant to all the developing countries so my suggestion would be that for the words "Land distribution and agrarian reform" the words "Agrarian and land reforms" should be inserted, which would comprehend all aspects including land distribution if that is valid in a certain area.
LE PRESIDENT: Est-ce que le délégué de l'Inde peut nous donner toute la phrase, la phrase complète de sa proposition?
S. P. MUKERJI (India): The sentence will read like this:"Agrarian and land reforms were seen as major vehicles for increasing agricultural production in the developing countries".
O. M. SELIKANE (Lesotho): What my colleague from India says is not the same as was said in the Drafting Committee but we do seem to recall that "distribution" was the one that was being used in the Committee during discussion and we would suggest that the sentence be left as it is after the explanation given by my colleague from Guinée and others.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): Me disculpo porque en realidad tengo muy mala memoria. No estoy muy segura de si la palabra "utilización" también fue manejada aquí por varias delegaciones.
Tal vez sea preferible hacer mención no sólo a la distribución de la tierra sino también a su utilización debida, como planteaba el delegado de la India.
Me remitiría a los colegas que tienen mejor memoria: al Presidente de la Comisión de Redacción, al Presidente de la Comisión, al Sr. Islam, etcétera, a ver si efectivamente el párrafo debiera quedar como ha sugerido el delegado de la India.
ESHETU DEBABU (Ethiopia): We would also support retaining the paragraph as it is.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): En realidad, dentro de los países que no necesitan que esta Comisión les recomiende hacer la reforma agraria, está mi país; o sea, que desde el punto de vista particular no tendría ningún inconveniente en que quedara "para algunos países en desarrollo" o "en aquellos que necesiten hacer la reforma agraria"; porque nosotros, afortunadamente, ya la hemos hecho.
En cuanto a la utilización de vida de las tierras, sí nos parece que es un elemento importante porque, efectivamente,no basta con distribuir la tierra, no basta con que se les entregue un pedazo de tierra a los pequeños agricultores si esa tierra no es bien utilizada después.
LE PRESIDENT: Je pense effectivement que les termes qui sont utilisés dans le texte tel qu'il est présenté ont été utilisés au cours de nos débats et je crois également que ce n'est pas applicable dans tous les pays en développement. Par conséquent, le terme "certains" peut être maintenu. Qu'en, pensent les délégués de la Tchécoslovaquie et de Cuba?
V. STIPETIC (Yugoslavia): I would suggest that in the second sentence of paragraph 14 four words should be added. It says:"A number of delegates drew attention to the problems posed in balancing rapid population growth with food supply; it was necessary to consider . . . ". In the view of my dele gation, it should be "and its raising incomes" with the food supply, since it is not only population growth Which has effects but also the raising of the incomes of the population, so in my view these words are needed in order to have a balance. On the other hand, the last sentence seems not to be drafted ir,a perfectly clear manner so probably some "scissoring" will be needed, which I leave in the hands of people who can express it much better in English than I can to find the proper words.
LE PRESIDENT: Il n'y a aucun inconvénient à inclure l'idée de la déléguée de Cuba pour la bonne utili sation des terres, je crois que cela a été exprimé au cours de nos débats et nous pouvons retenir cette idée-là. S'il n'y a plus d'interventions, nous pouvons considérer le paragraphe 13 comme adopté.
O. M. SELIKANE (Lesotho): Could the delegate of Yugoslavia read his amendment again, please?
LE PRESIDENT:Le délégué de la Yougoslavie s'en remet en fait au Secrétariat pour proposer un texte.
V. STIPETIC (Yugoslavia): The second sentence would read:
"A number of delegates drew attention to the problems posed in balancing rapid population growth and its raising incomes with the food supply;"
The last sentence should be "scissored" in such a way as to make it clearer than it is now in expres sing the view of this Commission. I leave that in the hands of the drafting Secretariat.
O. M. SELIKANE (Lesotho): I am now clear, thank you.
LE PRESIDENT: Nous pouvons considérer ce paragraphe 14 comme adopté avec l'amendement de la Yougos lavie. Le Secrétariat verra la meilleure forme à donner à ce texte.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba):Señor Presidente: Me parece que en realidad este Comité de Redacción ha sido muy estricto en cuanto a mencionar "decisiones de la Conferencia", cuando no han sido todos, absolutamente todos los delegados los que se han expresado, ya que me parece ridículo que se diga aquí "varios miembros" y no se diga "que la Conferencia destacó el Día Mundial de la Alimentación", cuando ésta en realidad es una reafirmación de una resolución de la Conferencia anterior. 0 sea, que mi propuesta concreta, la propuesta de mi delegación, es que se diga "la Conferencia destacó el Día Mundial de la Alimentación etc. , etc. ", aunque no hayan sido el cien por cien los delegados los que se expresaron con relación a este aspecto.
B. R. FURNESS (United States of America): The delegate of Cuba is absolutely correct in pointing out that the Drafting Committee did seek to reflect the character of the discussion in the draft that it prepared. However, in view of the fact that it is my understanding that there is a corresponding Draft Resolution before Commission II regarding endorsement of World Food Day, it might be appropriate simply to delete this paragraph and substitute a paragraph that will emerge from Commission II after that Draft Resolution has been considered in that body and appropriately voted up or down,
M. C DIALLO (Guinée):Compte tenu de l'accord exprimé par le délégué des Etats-Unis à la déléguée de Cuba, j'estime que nous devrions accorder de;l'importance à la suggestion qu'elle nous a faite. En fait, dans ce texte on a souvent tendance à faire des restrictions. Or, on ne peut pas affirmer, même au niveau de notre Commission, qu'il y ait eu consensus sur quelque programme que ce soit parce qu'il y a eu pendant nos débats des délégations absentes. Donc, comme nous le disons ici, ce serait "certains délégués", mais j'estime que les délégués qui ont pris la parole ici, sont intéressés au problème dont ils ont débattu et, dans le cas précis de ce paragraphe, je soutiens la délégation de Cuba disant qu'il faut mentionner "la Conférence", d'autant que nous traitons d'un problème qui a fait l'objet d'une résolution dans une autre Commission. Il s'agit donc de la Conférence.
LA XUAN DINH (Viet Nam): Je suis d'accord avec l'idée exprimée par la déléguée de Cuba parce que si nous nous le rappelons, le Directeur général nous a bien annoncé que 120 pays avaient déjà célébré la Journée mondiale de l'alimentation. Cela souligne bien que tous les pays du monde attachent une importance primordiale à la Journée mondiale de l'alimentation. C'est pourquoi on peut dire ici "La Conférence a été d'avis que la Journée mondiale de l'alimentation a été un moyen . . . " comme c'est indiqué dans le projet de rapport.
B. R. FURNESS (United States of America): Although we have no great wish to prolong this discussion unnecessarily, my suggestion was that we delete the reference to World Food Day in the report of this Commission and substitute the text of the draft Resolution which may be adopted in Commission II which will specifically address the subject of World Food Day. We would point out that paragraph 15 as it is drafted reflects accurately, we believe, the discussions and the number of interventions which addressed the subject of World Food Day.
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committee): There seems to be nobody objecting to "the Conference singling out". It is my opinion that there is no harm therefore in saying "World Food Day was singled out by the Conference . . . ". Nobody in this room objects to the Conference singling out. . may be that not everyone was there when the subject was discussed, but I think this expresses the view of the Conference.
SAID A. MADALLALI (Tanzania):I tend to be unhappy with the words "singled out". I think the best way would be to say "World Food Day was accepted", since there was a Resolution that there should be a World Food Day and many countries celebrated that day. In this Conference we are reflecting what happened and how useful World Food Day could be, therefore we accept that it is an important day but we do not singled it out. "Singled out" in what sense?
J. M. SCOULAR (United Kingdom): On a point of clarification, does the United States proposal mean that this paragraph in Commission I's report would be substituted by a paragraph, presumably saying something the same, in Commission II' s report, or would the paragraph in Commission II's report be combined with this paragraph in some way?
Srta. Z. KARAM DUAJI (Venezuela): Señor Presidente: Nosotros fuimos participantes del Comité de Redacción y este punto se consideró en el ámbito del mismo. Mi delegación considera y cree firmemente que se debe mantener el párrafo en cuestión, destacando el hecho de que los miembros o la Conferencia -porque realmente fue así- sí destacó el Día Mundial de la Alimentación, esto indepen dientemente de que se refleje en los otros proyectos finales de los otros Comités. Independiente mente. Creo que debemos reflejarlo así en nuestro proyecto porque se discutió aquí, en la Comisión, este hecho.
LE PRESIDENT : Je pense que tput le monde est d'accord pour reconnaître qu'au lieu de mettre "un certain nombre de membres", il convient de mettre "la Conférence". Quant au problème du double emploiqui semble être posé par les Etats-Unis, je ne pense pas qu'à ce stade cela soit nuisible. Je pense que nous pouvons retenir, puisque le Comité de rédaction l'a retenu, le paragraphe 15 en notant "la Conférence", au lieu de "un certain nombre de membres". Je vais passer la parole au président du Comité de rédaction pour donner le texte exact retenu par la Commission.
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committee): Paragraph 15 will now read:
"World Food Day was acknowledged by the Conference as a useful means of focussing attention to world food problems. "
LE PRESIDENT : Je crois que, rédigé de cette manière, nous pouvons considérer le paragraphe 15 comme adopté.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba):Señor Presidente: El párrafo 16 dice "que la Conferencia tomó nota de que en general los suministros de alimentos" (el texto español dice "eran suficientes"). Yo creo que más bien la Conferencia no tomó nota, sino que lamentó que en general los suministrps mundiales de alimentos no eran suficientes, (no eran suficientes), para mantener un nivel razonable, etc. etc. "
Me parece, señor Presidente, que no tomó nota, porque tomar nota en realidad no nos dice nada. Yo pienso que más bien la Conferencia se lamentó ''de que en general los suministros mundiales de alimentos no eran suficientes para mantener un nivel razonable de nutrición para todo el mundo".
S. P. MUKERJI (India): My delegation would support the delegate of Cuba in the suggested modification, that food supplies should be taken to be "not adequate" instead of "adequate". Concerning the second sentence of this paragraph, which reads "While it seemed both unreasonable and unlikely that the use of food as livestock feed would significantly decline, research should be undertaken to find alternative methods of feeding livestock and feed substitutes. " Although I was not present at the meeting of the Drafting Committee, any reader of this paragraph would be a little surprised that the Conference as a whole should think at this stage, when millions of people are on the verge of starvation or starving, that it is "unreasonable"-and I repeat the word "unreasonable"-"and unlikely that the use of food as livestock feed would significantly decline . . . ". I would strongly suggest that this sentence must be modified. If it is to reflect the feelings of some members who thought it was unreasonable, we should say that while some members thought it both unreasonable and unlikely that the use of food as livestock feed would significantly decline, it was felt that research should be under taken, etc Alternatively, we should completely delete the first part of this sentence which says ''While it seemed both unreasonable and unlikely that the use of food as livestock feed would signifi cantly decline. . . ". It appears to me that the second part and the first part do not go together. If it is "unreasonable", then why undertake research at all?
To say, at this stage of mankind's problems with food, that it is unreasonable to think in terms of having a substitute cattle feed, and to say further on that it is the feeling of the entire Conference, and not to speak of a view of all members --- my country at least would not like to subscribe to this particular feeling expressed here. I was not present when this was discussed in the Commission, but I am sure that it is impossible that all the developing countries should think that it is unreasonable to have a substitute for cattle feed.
Therefore, I have two options to suggest:either we delete the first part of the sentence to say that the Conference thought-or suggested-that research should be undertaken to find alternative methods; or, if some members still urge that this sentence should be retained in some form, I would suggest that this sentence should read:''While some members thought it unreasonable and unlikely. "
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): En realidad, nosotros nos habíamos referido solamente a la primera parte de este párrafo y teníamos una idea que no se si será factible, que es unir la primera parte:''Se lamentó en general que los suministros mundiales de alimentos no eran. . . , etc. , etc. '' y el último párrafo, donde se dice:''Los Gobiernos tendrían que prestar mayor atención . Y así hacer un nuevo párrafo que se refiriera a los alimentos, etc. , con las sugerencias propuestas por el delegado de la India.
No sé si me explico bien, señor Presidente. 0 sea: hacer un nuevo párrafo que se refiera solamente a este aspecto de los piensos para el ganado y las investigaciones para hallar métodos alternativos. En definitiva, que se unieran la primera y última parte del párrafo 16, con las enmiendas que había propuesto mi delegación.
B. R. FURNESS (United States of America): We have noted the interventions by the delegate of Cuba and others with respect to the first sentence. We think that the sentence as drafted certainly reflects the tenor of the discussion during the Commission; what is more, it is our impression that it certainly reflects the thrust of the material prepared for us, particularly in document C 81/2/S up. I. The point that has been made there is that in the world, taken as a whole,food supplies are adequate, but there are problems with the distribution of that food, as the paragraph indicates, both between and within countries. Therefore we strongly believe that this particular sentence should remain as it is here.
With respect to the discussion on the use of food as livestock feed, we see some merit in the suggestion that it be separated and, if it is necessary to retain this thought at all, that it could be done as a separate paragraph.
With respect to the third sentence, we believe that thought most appropriately follows that in the first sentence which, as there are a number of modifications now proposed, could read as follows:"Increased attention should be paid to the distribution aspects of food and to policies aimed to increase the purchasing power of the poor and so reduce malnutrition. " That would come directly after the first sentence.
J. SCHERER (Federal Republic of Germany)(Original language German): Just a comment about the first paragraph: My delegation is also of the view that this sentence should remain as it was-in other words, that the food supplies are sufficient, are adequate, viewed globally and by and large-otherwise the second phrase about equitable distribution would have no meaning. In order to make the matter even clearer, we could add "theoretically" before "adequate to maintain a reasonable level of nutrition for everyone".
SAID A. MADALLALI (Tanzania): It really makes no difference to us whether the first sentence reads as suggested by the delegate of Cuba, or as suggested by the delegate of the United States.
In the second sentence, we are talking about two different things. I do not understand "the use of food as livestock feed. " Surely, when you talk of food, you mean food in its entirety:here I think we mean the use of cereals. What do we mean by "food"?"Food" should contain both carbohydrates and proteins. Therefore I think that here we are talking of cereals, not "food".
R. E. STENSHOLT (Australia): I think, as other speakers, that we would best leave what is already here, if there is a large degree of agreement. On the first sentence, my preference is to leave it as it is, as reflecting the discussion. Similarly, with the third sentence I think there is general appeal for the American amendment, it is O. K. by me but I have no desire to change too much and be here all day with various amendments.
The second sentence, as has been pointed out so ably, seems to be inappropriate here. My suggestion is that we take the arguments offered by my colleague from India regarding the first half of the sentence and delete them and all the words "in particular" before "research" and transfer it following the last sentence of paragraph 9 or make an entirely new paragraph about research. So, a new paragraph 9, 9 bis if you like, would be consistent with the current last sentence of paragraph 9. "The Conference, drew attention to the need for intensified research to promote more efficient and economical use of inputs. . . etc". We add on to that "in particular, research should be undertaken to find alternative methods of feeding livestock and feed substitutes. " There, we have all the research together and all the distribution together.
LE PRESIDENT : La situation est assez compliquée. Je crois que je vais pouvoir donner la parole au président du Comité de rédaction et j'espère qu'il arrivera à y voir clair.
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committee): I am beginning to see things rather cloudily. When you are transferring ideas from one paragraph to another one tends to get into the clouds. I just want to refresh my recollection, as I recall the discussion on this paragraph centres round a balance of noting. There is adequate food, but the problem of distribution was the point in the first sentence. Definitely there are two ideas created in this paragraph 16 and, personally, I have no objection to transferring the idea of the second sentence to the bottom of paragraph 9. But, the other observation where it is regretted not only food, or inadequate food, I think this is a matter I need not pursue further.
LE PRESIDENT : Nous repassons la parole au Comité de rédaction. Je pense qu'il a tiré une conclusion, de concert avec le Secrétariat, et qu'il va nous la livrer.
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committe): I managed to get out of the clouds, I am beginning to see clearly. Sometimes, hunger may not let me see very clearly although it is only twelve o'clock. Let me try this, we could start paragraph 16 with this : "The Conference noted that" or you could even have "regretted" if you want, anyway, "The Conference noted that although by and large world food sup plies were statistically adequate to maintain a reasonable level of nutrition for everyone, there was an unequal distribution of available food supplies both between and within countries. " Now, after that, we retain the last sentence of paragraph 16, as it is. At the same time we transfer the idea in the se cond sentence of that paragraph as suggested by my brilliant Australian colleague, to the bottom of paragraph 9, or, asa new paragraph. Australia will definitely agree to volunteer the necessary para graph, I hope, even at this time of day. That is my humble submission.
LE PRESIDENT : Je pense qu'effectivement nous sortons des nuages et que cette proposition pourrait recueillir l'unanimité. N'est-ce pas ?
B. R. FURNESS (United States of America): Just to indicate that we can accept the proposal noted by, and given to us by the Chairman of the Drafting Committee, with the use of the words that "The Confe rence noted". With respect to the last sentence I would just point out that the elimination of the words "Governments would have to pay" was aimed at improving the text so as to promote additional scope in this area of international organizations, and others to pay increased attention to the distribution aspects of food. However, if it is the consensus of this group that we would prefer to retain the origi nal formulation, the United States will certainly not block consensus on that.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): Señor Presidente: no es la primera vez que nosotros nos dirigimos a los distinguidos representantes de los Comités de Redacción para pregúntales qué se entiende por "tomar nota"?, "la Conferencia tomo nota". ¿Qué significa eso de "tomar nota"?¿Que la puso en el bolsillo y basta? "Tomar nota" me parece que es una cosa muy ambigua. Creo que podríamos buscar para ello un calificativo más adecuado. Que la Conferencia se reúna y tome nota solamente es para pregruntarse: ¿para qué hemos venido de nuestros países?¿Para tomar nota simplemente?
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman Drafting Committee): Of course, without going into semantics, there are many kinds of "noting", my distinguished colleague, Madame from Cuba. One is a positive "noting" and the other is a negative "noting". Let us choose which end of the scale we are, since we all spend a lot of money coming here, we all tend to go for the negative "noting". We could say "acknowledge with regret", "acknowledge with concern". We have all the kinds of combinations, I think this is where the problem is. It is not just "noting" or "taking note of" it is to what degree is it on the positive or negative side? If it is a case of shortage of food definitely, you cannot "note with glee" or "note with happiness", you have to "note with great regret" because hunger is not on the decline. Somewhere along the line we put "acknowledge with concern" or "noted with concern", that is my view about the whole thing.
B. R. FURNESS (United States of America):In our view the use of the word "noted" in this context is entirely appropriate. We have two statements in this. One fact is positive, that "by and large world food supplies are statistically adequate to maintain a reasonable level of nutrition". On the other hand, there is the negative factor that there is unequal distribution between and within countries, thus it certainly is not appropriate to "note with regret that world food supplies are adequate", not at all although it may be appropriate to "note with regret that there is unequal distribution". Similary, it is inappropriate to "note with satisfaction" that world food supplies were adequate but it is not appropriate to "note with satisfaction that there is unequal distribution".
The language that we have there seems entirely appropriate for the situation that we have.
Md. IRSHADUL HAQ (Bangladesh):In the second sentence, I want to point out one thing, that despite "the statistically adequate availability of food supplies the availability of distribution between and within countries", is due to two factors. One is the maldistribution, the other is the diversion of cereals for use as feed to animals. So, what I suggest is that instead of taking over the second sentence to paragraph 9 it should be at the end of paragraph 16 that "in particular, research should be undertaken to find alternative methods of feeding livestock and food substitutes in order to reduce the use of cereals as livestock feed". Because, if we really recognize that there is a statistical adequacy of food supplies, and that the adequacy is disturbed because of two reasons, one is the maldistribution and the other is the diversion of cereals for use of food for livestock, if research is to be emphasized it should be emphasized in this very paragraph.
S. P. MUKERJI (India): Taking the clue from the delegate of the United States, I would like to suggest a slight improvement in the last sentence of this paragraph because, as it is, it exhorts the government of various countries to reduce disparities to income within the countries but it is silent in so far as international responsibility is concerned, especially in the context of what we have said earlier in the first sentence, that food is inequitably distributed both between and within countries. The last sentence should cover the national problem, the international problemand the inter-country problem also. Therefore, I suggest for consideration-and it is subject to other improvement-that this sentence should read as follows :
"Governments would have to pay increased attention"-and I add the words "nationally and Internationally"-"to the distribution aspects of food and to adopt policies aimed to increase the purchasing power of the poor and the poor countries and to reduce poverty. "
R. ROSE (Canada) : It seemed we had reached a point about ten minutes ago when the clouds and the fog had cleared, wher we were close to accepting perhaps a compromise statement that did in fact reflect what was said at the Commission's discussions. We now seem to be getting into a discussion of what we wish we had said, or perhaps what we should have said, but certainly not a reflection of what actually was said by delegates during the discussion on this topic.
I propose that we go back to the wording that was suggested by the Chairman of the Drafting Committee about ten minutes ago and accept it and move on to further paragraphs.
B. PALESTINI (Italy) : I support the version given by the Chairman of the Drafting Committee in the sense that the first phrase would read : "The Conference noted that etc. etc. " whilst in the second sentence I suggest deleting the words "both unreasonable" and it would read like this : "While it seemed unlikely. . . " etc and as regards the last sentence I think that "Governments" could stand because it is the governments which adopt policies. It would give better sense to the phrase.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): Nuestra delegación casi estaba de acuerdo con lo que había propuesto el Presi dente del Comité de Redacción. Sin embargo, me interesa aclarar que esta delegación no insiste en estas cuestiones por el hecho de que en este momento quisiera decir lo que no se dijo oportunamente en esta Comisión. Y voy a leer exactamente lo que, referente a este asunto, mi delegación manifestó.
Fue lo siguiente: "Mi delegación considera que, a pesar de que el documento C 81/2 Supl. 1, plantea que la situación inmediata de la alimentación mundial revela alguna mejora, en términos generales se mantiene vigente el planteamiento que aparece en el párrafo 1) del documento C 81/2, en el cual se califica al período 1980-81 "como uno de los más difíciles de la postguerra".
Esto fue lo que dijo mi delegación en esta misma Comisión refiriéndose a un texto que nos había ofre cido la Secretaría.
Acerca de este particular, nosotros estimamos que, si bien como decía el Presidente del Comité de Re dacción, estadísticamente los suministros mundiales de alimentos eran suficientes, la solución no esta ba resuelta y entendemos que uno de los problemas es precisamente la distribución.
Por eso, nosotros proponíamos un texto diciendo: "La Conferencia se lamentó de que, si bien en general los suministros mundiales de alimentos eran estadísticamente suficientes para mantener un nivel razona ble de nutrición para todo el mundo, y de que los alimentos estaban distribuidos de manera no equitati va dentro de ellos".
Posteriormente, pasar a la última creación de este párrafo 16), y respecto de la frase intermedia, ya hemos quedado de acuerdo con Australia en que la va a redactar como más bonita le quede.
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committee): As you know, every cloud has a silver lining; maybe this is it. This will take care of both the views, the positive and the "regretting" side. I will read it at dictation speed.
"Although by and large world food supplies were statistically adequate to maintain a reasonable level of nutrition for everyone, the Conference noted with concern/regret (we will make the choice before lunch, I hope)that there was unequal distribution of available food supplies both between and within countries. . . "
Now taking care of another idea by the Indian delegation, we have this. Continue:
"Governments would have to pay increased attention nationally and internationally to increase the purchasing power of the poor and to reduce poverty".
LE PRESIDENT:Vous avez entendu la phrase du président du Comité de rédaction, y a-t-il encore des objections?
R. E. STENSHOLT (Australia): Could we just have the last sencence again please, not necessarily at dictation speed.
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committee):
"Governments should have to pay increased attention nationally and internationally to the distribution aspects of food and to policies to increase the purchasing power of the poor and to reduce poverty".
LE PRESIDENT : Cette fois je pense que tout le monde a bien note et compris, y compris le délégué de l'Australie je crois. Y a-t-il encore des remarques sur ce point ? Il semble que tout le monde soit d'accord maintenant sur le texte, nous pouvons donc considérer le paragraphe 16 comme adopté avec ces deux phrases.
Nous avons une troisième phrase que l'on propose d'ajouter au paragraphe 9. Je vais donner la parole au Secrétariat pour vous dire comment il propose d'ajouter cette dernière phrase au paragraphe 9.
B. P. DUTIA (Secretary, Commission I). As suggested by the distinguished delegate of Australia which seems to have met with the approval of the Commission, the second sentence of paragraph 16 will be shifted to become a part of the existing paragraph 9, although then the existing paragraph 9 will be divided into two paragraphs. If you go back to paragraph 9 the suggestion is that it will now consist of the first two sentences only, ending with "were noted with concern". Then a new paragraph, 9 bis, will begin which will read "The Conference drew attention" which will be the last sentence of the existing paragraph 9 "the Conference drew attention to the need for intensifying research to promote more efficient and economical use of inputs and energy in food and agricultural production" and then it will continue "In particular research should be undertaken to find alternative methods of feeding livestock and feed substitutes in order to reduce the use of cereals as livestock feed. " This is taking the suggestion made by the Distinguished Delegate of Bangladesh also into account.
LE PRESIDENT : Je pense que la proposition du Secrétariat a été fidèlement notée. Est-ce qu'il y a des objections sur cette question?
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): Señor Presidente: No es una intervención, sino simplemente una aclaración, si la Secretaría fuera tan amable; porque aquí miramos en este párrafo, que hemos trasladado al párrafo 9 que, se habla de "empleo de alimentos para el ganado" y se habla de que "deberían realizarse investi gaciones para hallar métodos alternativos de alimentar al ganado y sucedáneos de los piensos". Pero en este nuevo párrafo, en esta parte, (yo por lo menos lo veo así), no hay nada que se refiera a este aspecto. No sé si entendimos mal o es que sencillamente hemos eliminado la cuestión esta referente a la alimentación del ganado.
LE PRESIDENT:On va repasser la parole au Secrétariat pour qu'il puisse relire la phrase: veuillez écouter attentivement.
B. P. DUTIA (Secretary, Commission I): The last sentence of the new paragraph 9 bis would read as follows:"In particular research should be undertaken to find alternative methods of feeding livestock and feed substitutes in order to reduce the use of cereals as livestock feed. "
LE PRESIDENT: Madame le déléguéde Cuba est-elle satisfaite ? . . . O. K.
M. KRIESBERG (United States of America):I am somewhat concerned that we are seeking to develop a number of very complex ideas in the process of seeking some minor modifications in the language of one or two paragraphs. The concept which we are now concerned with is indeed complex and I am not at all sure that this is the particular time and place for attempting to put together the kind of concept which we are now talking about. I would submit that this should not be included at this stage unless we wish at this stage to consider the much larger discussion on this kind of complex subject.
LE PRESIDENT : Nous aurions souhaité que le délégué des Etats-Unis nous fasse une proposition concrète à ce sujet.
M. KRIESBERG (United States of America): I am not sure that my Delegation is prepared to set forth the various aspects of this particular problem but it would seem to me that we wanted research on feeding of livestock and to promote that kind of research, let us say just that leaving our options open as to the ways in which we can develop the means of feeding livestock more efficiently. Livestock in many countries are an important source of foodstuffs where they cannot grow some of the other kinds of crops that we are familiar with and hence our concern should be with all research which would enhance the means of growing or raising livestock as appropriate to individual countries, something as general as that rather than at this stage determining what it is we want the research to come up with in this respect.
LE PRESIDENT: Compte tenu de l'objection des Etats-Unis sur cette phrase qui lui semble peut-être trop précise, je vais demander au Secrétariat de faire un amendement à la première phrase proposée.
B. P. DUTIA (Secretary, Commission I): In view of what the distinguished delegate of the U. S. A. has now suggested, the last sentence of the new paragraph 9 bis could be modified to read as follows: "In particular research should be undertaken to find alternative methods of feeding livestock and feed substitutes. "
LE PRESIDENT: Je pense que cette phrase doit satisfaire tout le monde ?
SAID A. MADALLALI (Tanzania): I am just wondering whether that sentence makes any sense at all. I think that we start off with "Research should be undertaken on methods of feeding livestock". We should stop there. The words "feed substitutes" are really additional. It has no meaning because if you do research to find alternative methods of feeding livestock then you are finding feed substitutes instead of using many cereals. I cannot understand. Those words "feed substitutes" really do not mean anything because whatever you find out your research will give you those feed substitutes to substitute for cereals. Then why do we have to put it there? That is the intention of the research and it is mentioned.
LE PRESIDENT : On va peut-être encore raccourcir cette phrase.
M. KRIESBERG (United States of America) : We were about to suggest that too and following the suggest ion of the distinguished delegate from Tanzania to simply put the period after "alternative methods of feeding livestock".
LE PRESIDENT : Cette fois c'est bien la fin. Je vais demander au Secrétariat de relire cette phrase pour que tout le monde soit bien d'accord.
B. P. DUTIA (Secretary, Commission I): The last sentence of paragraph 9 bis will read as follows: "In particular research should be undertaken to find alternative means of feeding livestock".
LE PRESIDENT : Il n'y a pas eu de traduction française. Pas d'objections? Nous disons que les paragraphes 9 et 9 bis sont adoptés ainsi que le paragraphe 16.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba):Señor Presidente: No está en mi ánimo entablar una polémica; simplemente me parece que el comienzo de este párrafo, donde dice "durante el debate", sobra, está de más, porque er, realidad ¿en qué otro lugar se desarrollo? Me parece que pudiéramos comenzar con "se hizo referencia" y sobra "el debate", porque todo lo hicimos durante el debate.
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committee): This is one of those occasions where we do want to place on record how the discussion went. Nevertheless it is stating facts. If you don't want it you could easily delete the first three words in the English text and go directly on to the substance of it.
LE PRESIDENT:Je pense que le paragraphe 20 peut être adopté avec l'amendement de Cuba.
V. STIPETIC (Yugoslavia): I would suggest that a few words could be omitted in the third sentence of this paragraph. This sentence starts with: "It noted that food aid was covering a declining proportion of the cereal import needs of low-income countries" and I would suggest omitting the following words: "reflecting temporary and specific problems affecting some countries. " We do not know at the moment how temporary are those phenomena and what are the specific problems, so I would only state the fact that food aid was covering a declining proportion of the cereal import needs of low-income countries. That is my suggestion.
B. R. FURNESS (United States of America): This phrase was discussed at some length during the work of the commission and during the Drafting Committee in which Yugoslavia participated to a very considerable extent. If the representative here from Yugoslavia is not familiar with the context in which that statement was placed perhaps his colleague who represented Yugoslavia on the Drafting Committee would go into it in rather more detail. We think this should remain as drafted.
V. STIPETIC (Yugoslavia):I withdraw my amendment.
LE PRESIDENT: Puisque l'amendement est retiré, le texte est adopté tel quel.
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committee):This is a paragraph over which a lot of beverages and energy were consumed, at least on my part. We really were kept awake over this and in advance I crave the indulgence of this body that we shall not be kept all night, anyway, through the wisdom of the Chair. However, this morning the parties concerned suddenly woke up to the fact and there were considerable consultations, beginning at 9 o'clock, and I am happy to report here that the square brackets might easily be deleted and we could use some words of wisdom in the English language which I have before me. I shall read them to you and I think this might satisfy all parties.
Paragraph 26 would begin:
''The reason for this slowing down of agricultural trade which had affected some developed countries as well, was primarily depressed demand because of continuing economic recession, particularly for agricultural raw materials and tropical beverages. ''
After consultation the following wording is proposed to follow that sentence:
''Concern was expressed that the increasing prevalence of protectionist policies and/or measures, with livestock products and sugar receiving particular attention, had seriously impeded on a number of occasions, and might similarly impede in the future, the expansion of trade in these commodities. ''
There have been these amendments through consultations and I sincerely hope that these minor, but. significant changes could be accepted.
LE PRESIDENT: Je pense que vous venez de donner tous les amendements qui ont été apportés au texte original. Je demande à ceux qui veulent intervenir de le faire.
V. STIPETIC (Yugoslavia): Yugoslavia would support the wording just read out by the Chairman of the Drafting Committee.
N. CARRAS CO-S AULNIER (France): Pourriez-vous nous relire une seconde fois le texte pour que nous en prenions note.
ABU BAKAR bin MAHMUD (Chairman, Drafting Committee) : I will read again the passage in which amendments have been made. It is the second sentence:
''Concern was expressed that the increasing prevalence of protectionist policies and/or measures, with livestock products and sugar receiving particular attention, had seriously impeded on a number of occasions, and might similarly impede in the future, the expansion of trade in these commodities. ''
N, CARRASCO-SAULNIER (France): En ce qui concerne la traduction de "on a number of occasions", cette phrase devrait être traduite par "en certaines occasions" et non pas "à de multiples reprises". C'est un détail.
LE PRESIDENT : Bien, le texte français doit être amendé comme ceci : non pas "multiples" mais "certaines".
S. P. MUKERJI (India): Reminding ourselves of the unanimous support given to the draft Resolution on forestry this morning, I suppose it would be very appropriate if in this paragraph instead of "several members" we could say "the Conference pointed out the vital need to preserve and protect. . . ", because there can be no two opinions about this. There is no harm, but I think there would be gain, if we put the whole strength of the Conference behind this statement.
LE PRESIDENT : Je crois que c'est normal. La proposition faite par la déléguée de Cuba est acceptable. Ceci est adopté avec les deux amendements.
Sra. G. SOTO (Cuba): Sobre el párrafo 30, yo estoy de acuerdo con la propuesta hecha por el delegado de la India. Pero, después del punto y seguido, tendríamos que decir "asimismo", en vez de "la Confer rencia. . . "
LE PRESIDENT : Nous venons de terminer l'adoption de ce premier rapport. Nous en avons encore deux. Nous reprendrons nos travaux cet après-midi à 14 h 30 pour pouvoir suivre l'adoption de la totalité du rapport.
Paragraphs to 33, as amended, approved
Les paragraphes l à 33, ainsi amendés, sont approuvés
Los párrafos l a 33, así enmendados, son aprobados
Draft Report of Commission I, Part I, as amended, was adopted
Projet de Rapport de la Commission I, lère partie, ainsi amendai, est adopté
El proyecto de informe de la Comisión I, parte I, así enmendado, es aprobado
The meeting rose at 13. 05 hours
La séance est levée à 13 h 05
Se levanta la sesión a las 13. 05 horas
