CHAIRMAN: The fourteenth meeting of Commission I is called to order.
Tomas BERGENDAL (Sweden): Document C 87/27 is of high quality. It may be of interest to the Secretariat to know that the document is used as an important source of reference in the daily work of institutions in my country. This being so, allow me to present some observations intended to improve future versions.
Firstly, in the document it is difficult in many instances readily to understand what are meant to be general observations and estimates or forecasts, on the one hand, and what are meant to be recommendations having a bearing on FAO's work, on the other hand. An improvement in this respect is recommended.
Secondly, as regards conclusions and recommendations, we should like to see a more systematic reference to relevant executed or planned activities of FAO. This would more clearly show the impact of FAO's analytical work on its various programmes and the budget.
Finally, we welcome the inclusion in this version of the environmental aspects in Chapter 11.
Ousseini SIDIBE (Niger): Ma delegation tient á marquer sa satisfaction au Secrétariat pour le document important qui nous est soumis, je veux parler de l'édition du document Agriculture: Horizon 2000, document assez clair et assez complet. Nous sommes satisfaits du diagnostic de l'agriculture subsaharienne développé dans le document.
Nous sommes également satisfaits des. projections sur le développement de l'agriculture à moyen et même à long terme. L'analyse réalisée dans le document correspond en de nombreux points à notre propre politique de développement rural, politique adoptée après les longues années de sécheresse qui ont sévi dans mon pays depuis 1968. En effet, les nombreux cycles de sécheresse qu'a connus mon pays nous ont renforcés dans notre détermination de développer davantage notre agriculture par la mobilisation et la responsabilisation des populations en vue de l'exploitation de toutes nos potentialités agricoles existantes pour assurer notre autosuffisance alimentaire:
1) en favorisant l'émergence d'une agriculture de surplus
2) en préservant et en restaurant les équilibres écologiques
3) en gérant rationnellement le complexe cheptel-pâturage-points d'eau
4) en satisfaisant les besoins de la population en bois, énergie et produits de cueillette
5) en protégeant, développant et exploitant rationnellement les potentiels fauniques et halieutiques
6) en développant et intensifiant la recherche agricole.
C'est donc conformément à notre propre politique et stratégie que nous soutenons le document Agriculture: Horizon 2000.
Ce document a le mérite, entre autres, de souligner l'importance de la relation entre l'augmentation de la production et de la productivité agricole et les équilibres écologiques et, de manière plus globale, la protection de l'environnement.
Toutefois, ma délégation souhaite voir prendre en compte davantage la question complexe de la formation, de l'information et de l'encadrement des paysans et les mesures appropriées pour faire périodiquement le point sur le développement agricole dans l'ensemble des pays de la FAO, en ayant pour base les analyses pertinentes du document Agriculture: Horizon 2000.
Enfin il est très important pour nous - vous le devinez aisément - de voir figurer et analyser la question de la dette, combien importante et contraignante pour le développement de notre agriculture.
Antoine SAINTRAINT (Belgique): Je voudrais tout d'abord remercier la FAO pour le document qui nous a été présenté. Je serai bref mais il s'agit incontestablement d'un point substantiel et important des débats de notre commission. Comme la délégation du Royaume de Belgique l'avait annoncé auparavant, l'intervention présente vise à couvrir trois points de l'ordre du jour. En effet, selon notre délégation, le fil conducteur des points suivants:
- Situation mondiale de l'alimentation et de l'agriculture,
- Ajustement agricole international,
- Agriculture: Horizon 2000,
s'appelle libéralisation de l'agriculture et ses conséquences pour les marchés agricoles internationaux.
Ce fil conducteur qui constitue implicitement la solution à nos maux d'aujourd'hui soulève beaucoup d'espoir. Cependant, à notre avis, il serait peut-être opportun, voire essentiel, de manier le concept avec une certaine prudence.
Notre réflexion s'insère bien sûr dans le contexte irréfutable de la situation démontrée par les analyses, à savoir une offre excédentaire par rapport à la demande. Il ne faut pas oublier toutefois que ce déséquilibre s'exprime uniquement vis-à-vis de la demande dite solvable.
La situation est inique dans la mesure où les populations souffrent de la faim et ne peuvent satisfaire à leurs besoins faute de moyens financiers.
Il faut changer cette situation mais si on effectue une analyse plus élaborée de l'offre et de ses perspectives dans les pays développés on en mesure toute la complexité. Surcapacité certes mais les différents rapports négligent ou parlent avec une modestie beaucoup trop grande de deux points essentiels à nos yeux: c'est d'abord la problématique du produit dit de substitution. Leur apparition a été observée dans de multiples secteurs: dans le cas du sucre, en quelques années seulement, on a vu la production des sucres de substitution équivaloir pratiquement les exportations totales en sucre blanc et roux sur le marché libre.
Pour ce qui concerne les produits laitiers, les laits et les fromages de synthèse ont été stimulés par l'extension de l'alimentation fast food, ils prennent déjà quelque 300 000 tonnes uniquement au sein de la Communauté économique européenne et on estime actuellement qu'aux Etats-Unis, autour de l'an 2000, une grande partie de la production fromagère destinée aux préparations alimentaires-sera à base de lait de soja.
A cette perspective s'ajoute celle de l'emploi de la somatotropine dans la production laitière classique, mais peut-on l'appeler encore ainsi; cette production et cet emploi permettront une hausse considérable des rendements laitiers par animal, toutes choses restant égales.
Dans le domaine de la viande, les produits de remplacement à base de soja s'imposent actuellement de plus en plus et que dire des produits de substitution des céréales dont la plus célèbre est le corn-glucose-feed.
Ceci ne se fera que dans la perspective d'une libéralisation, laquelle sera concrétisée au dire des études empiriques citées par le Secrétariat en une réallocation des ressources en agriculture
couplée à une hausse des prix sur les marchés internationaux. Seulement, il se trouve que les produits de substitution précités ont pour la plupart des prix de revient difficilement évaluables car ils sont produits à partir de résidus, ils sont des résidus. Ils seront par conséquent encore plus compétitifs à l'avenir induisant une situation à moyen et long terme qui ne sera peut-être réellement en conformité qu'avec celle indiquée dans les documents du Secrétariat.
L'autre facteur fondamental dont on néglige de tenir compte au niveau des marchés agricoles est le problème du mouvement erratique des changes à la baisse comme à la hausse, et qui joue également un rôle important dans le déséquilibre desdits marchés. Ceci n'a du reste pas échappé, à Monsieur le Directeur général Saouma, qui cite cet élément à juste titre dans sa considération initiale.
Il faut rappeler avec insistance que la dérive à long terme et les fortes oscillations à court terme des taux de change brouillent les signaux émis sous forme de prix sur les marchés internationaux et par conséquent altèrent leur position souhaitée d'étalon.
Sachant en plus que les flux commerciaux agricoles sont caractérisés par une èminente hétérogénéité et interchangeabilité, il n'est pas étonnant que ce cocktail rende difficile une organisation durable et fiable des marchés internationaux.
C'est pourquoi, selon nous, on ne peut envisager la libéralisation de l'agriculture que de manière concertée, équilibrée et multiproduits pour éviter des dérives. Tous les pays ont une responsabilité dans la situation actetuelle.
Je pourrais vous parler de bien d'autres problèmes mais je n'en aborderai plus qu'un, celui du fameux ESP, équivalent subventions à la production, dont la paternité est revendiquée par plusieurs; en réalité, le concept de base de cet équivalent subventions à la production date de la période qui précède le Kennedy Round et il avait été imaginé à l'époque par le Comité agricole du GATT. Il a été repris ensuite par la FAO mais dans une conception beaucoup plus simple que celle conçue actuellement par l'OCDE. Dans cette dernière conception, on a voulu dépasser le stade du. seul soutien par les prix qui ne constitue en fait que la partie émergée de l'iceberg du soutien agricole car on a observé que, dans les pays développés du groupe CARIS, l'agriculture n'est pas exempte de soutien, lequel ¡. s'exprime dans des formes élaborées, boards nationaux ou provinciaux, systèmes de double prix, glissement monétaire, commerce d'Etat, subventions au transport (et c'est un facteur important) et subventions aux facteurs de production.
Voilà la raison pour laquelle l'Organisation de coopération et de développement économique se distingue fondamentalement de ses frères et rend compte de la situation complexe de l'agriculture d'aujourd'hui. C'est cette version qui devait être utilisée lors de la négociation de l'Uruguay Round.
Il serait souhaitable que les deux points majeurs que je viens de citer soient incorporés dans le rapport de notre commission et soient étudiés par la suite au Comité des produits et dans ce groupe spécialisé. Il s'agit de points particulièrement importants.
Je me permets d'attirer l'attention de notre commission sur ces différents points en espérant que dans l'avenir nous pourrons nous pencher sur les différents aspects de ces problèmes de façon à arriver à un équilibre mondial souhaitable et indispensable.
Ms Roberta van HAEFTEN (United States of America): The US delegation beleves that Agriculture: Toward 2000represents a very substantial contribution to a better understanding of the continuing evolution of world agriculture. The report documents the substantial progress made in improving the nutritional status of millions of people around the world as well as the potential for making further gains. It also highlights the stubborn persistence of hunger among an unacceptably large part of the world's population.
The US delegation agrees that efforts to improve this situation involve the need by many developing countries to bring about structural adjustments of their economies which redress the disadvantages sometimes imposed by past development strategies. We also applaud the aim of reducing the inconsistencies which often exist between macro-economic and agricultural policies and of avoiding too great or too long a divergence of producer prices from long-term international price trends.
We believe that the report is right not to expect so great an increase in external assistance to agriculture as in the 1970s and in urging more efficient use of all financial resources and particularly of encouraging private savings and of channelling these into rural investments. At the same time, small farmers will often need help if they are to be assimilated into the marketing system.
The US delegation is also pleased that the report gives more emphasis to environmental issues, noting that environmental issues are moving to the fore in considerations of development strategies because of their bearing on natural resource capacity. The US delegation believes that the projections also carry out a very timely exploration of the dangerous consequences of the projected expansion of agricultural surpluses for several commodities in the developed countries, most particularly in the United States and the European Community, supported by protectionist agricultural trade policies. The projections very correctly point out that continuation of present policies implies a need for radical policy adjustments.
The report indicates the likely ineffectiveness of unilateral reductions in production by residual suppliers of, for instance, grain by the United States or of dairy products by the EC. It correctly judges that the United States is unwilling to bear the sole burden of adjustment by being the only country to cut back supplies to make a permanent sharp reduction in planted area and to accept a sharp drop in its share of the world market. The report warns of the increased potential for dangerous trade conflict among developed countries and speaks of the benefits which could be obtained from trade liberalization and enhanced access to international markets.
The Secretariat also indicates that developed countries have a particular responsibility to unwind the major distortions of agricultural trade which have resulted from the pursuit of policies which encourage excessive production. It also advocates that the developed countries should work together and share the cost of holding production below potential.
The US Government agrees that a cooperative approach is essential and for that reason offered its comprehensive proposal presented at the MTN to phase out all agricultural subsidies which directly or indirectly affect trade and to eliminate trade barriers. The US Delegation also believes that the developing countries have responsibilities as well as much to gain from actively participating in this trade liberalization process.
Agriculture: Toward 2000points out that the benefits of trade liberalization would tend to be larger if all market economies were to participate in such liberalization. The projections provide evidence that widespread agricultural trade liberalization might lead to higher prices paid by developing countries for some imported temperate zone products but that their increases in export revenues from other products would more than compensate for such increases.
Furthermore, the developing countries are estimated to improve their terms of trade because of an expected fall in the real price of manufactured and equipment goods imported from developed countries because of liberalization in their agricultural sectors. Of great importance in reducing hunger, all developing country regions are estimated to see a rise in rural incomes.
I should like to close with a few comments of a technical nature about the projections. One need not accept each and every assumption, element of methodology or conclusion of these projections to see their value. The Secretariat has been professionally diligent in pointing out that its assumptions reflect its evaluation of possible policy stances based upon past trends and elements of judgement. Consequently, it has emphasized that the projection results represent only one possible trade outcome and that the scope for different results is large. It has also been diligent in pointing out some of the limitations of its methodology. For instance, it acknowledges that the absence of projections of the oilseed sector in relation to demand for feed grains is a serious shortcoming.
The Secretariat notes other potential difficulties such as those associated with projecting the import demands of developing countries for grains because of uncertainties in anticipating the future evolution of their livestock sectors.
No doubt some other difficulties arise from the fact that prices have less direct influence in the Secretariat's methodology than they would in a more formal mathematical approach in which prices are directly instrumental in simultaneously determining the level of supply and demand, and in allowing for cross-effects among commodities.
The United States has noted some places in the report where more recent information could be incorporated, and would be happy to cooperate in providing new data. However, we do not believe that such revisions would have any significant impact upon the major conclusions of the report. We encourage, further effort by FAO to improve their projections, and would be happy to share the results of our own efforts with the Secretariat.
Along those lines, in closing, we would also like to support the comments made by several other delegations, including Turkey and the Federal Republic of Germany, about the importance of improving the data bases, especially in the developing countries, as another means of improving such projections as we have been discussing here today.
Igor MARINCER (Suisse): J'aimerais d'abord remercier le Professeur Nurul Islam de son introduction claire dans l'édition revue de l'étude "Agriculture: horizon 2000". Malheureusement, nous n'avons reçu le document que quelques jours avant la Conférence, il ne nous était donc pas possible de l'étudier en détail.
Mon pays salue la continuation du travail de la FAO dans cette étude importante. Il s'agit là d'une activité classique, qui est tout à fait centrale pour le rôle de la FAO en tant que centre d'infor-mation. Le document offre une multitude de données intéressantes.
Un premier regard dans le document nous donne l'impression que les hypothèses sous-jacentes, les hypothèses de travail, sortent moins clairement que dans la version précédente de l'étude. Une grande clarté à ce sujet est cependant une condition préalable pour rendre l'étude facilement lisible et compréhensible. Pour atteindre les milieux responsables des politiques, et pour ainsi assurer un impact maximum, l'étude qui est devant nous doit se prêter à servir de référence aux conseillers en matière de politique.
Dans sa dernière version, l'étude présentait un scénario de tendance ainsi qu'un autre scénario normatif. Ce scénario normatif, qui se basait sur une croissance économique de 7 pour cent était peu réaliste. Il est donc positif qu'on ait choisi un scénario plus réaliste et nous nous félicitons du fait que les hypothèses de croissance soient maintenant également différenciées selon les régions.
Les projections de base sur la croissance du PIB que nous trouvons dans le tableau 2 à 3.2 nous semblent cependant assez optimistes. Vu la grande insécurité concernant le développement de l'éco-nomie mondiale, vu également les faibles performances des dernières années, nous doutons que ces hypothèses soient vraiment réalistes. Il serait par ailleurs souhaitable que les risques écologiques associés aux divers scénarios de croissance soient étudiés de plus près.
Monsieur le Président, le rapport semble assez timide dans ses conclusions en matière de politique. L'analyse et le diagnostic sont certes indispensables, mais il est tout aussi important de nous présenter en même temps des propositions pour réagir aux problèmes qui se dessinent à long terme, qui se dessinent à l'horizon de l'an 2000 et au-delà.
Face aux résultats de l'analyse de cette étude, quelles sont les conclusions que la FAO tire pour son propre rôle, son orientation à long terme, ses activités à moyen terme? C'est exactement pour répondre à cette question que mon pays pense qu'un examen de la FAO est nécessaire. L'étude nous confirme dans notre thèse qu'il est indispensable que la FAO joue de son influence dans les domaines les plus difficiles du développement de l'agriculture et de l'alimentation, surtout dans les pays où la situation est la plus critique. Ces domaines sont, à notre avis, la formulation et la mise en oeuvre de politiques agricoles visant la sécurité alimentaire. Nos propositions de réforme qui sont présentées dans le document C 87/30, vont dans cette direction, et visent à renforcer la FAO en améliorant sa contribution dans le domaine qui est le sien.
Andrés DE LEON LLAMAZARES (España): La delegación española ha analizado con interés el documento que nos ha sido suministrado por FAO. sobre Agricultura: Horizonte 2000, en el corto período de tiempo de que se ha dispuesto para ello, y seguirá analizándolo con más detenimiento por considerarlo una aportación muy valiosa e importante en el momento actual para clarificar y orientar la evo-lución futura del comercio agrario mundial, de la producción y el consumo alimentarios y de su impacto medioambiental.
Es un documento más realista y fundamentado que su predecesor de 1979, y sus conclusiones generales y sectoriales mucho más utiles para formular los problemas del uso agrario de los recursos y de la producción, distribución y consumo de alimentos, fibras, madera, etcétera. Asimismo permite definir, evaluar e instfiimentar de forma más precisa, las posibles soluciones de esos problemas.
En esta primera lectura y en honor a la brevedad que nos ha pedido el señor Presidente, sólo queremos apuntar que el impacto de la biotecnología como base de nuevas demandas no alimentarias de los productos agrarios, así como el de las disponibilidades energéticas, no parecen suficientemente tratados en el modelo desarrollado, aún cuando también es cierto que este modelo es abierto y estamos seguros de que admitirá, en ocasiones futuras, un ajuste más fino de los parámetros básicos sobre los que se sustenta, como el PIB, la evolución demográfica, y la incorporación de nuevos parámetros y sus efectos.
En consecuencia, señor Presidente, mi delegación quiere felicitar a la FAO por el trabajo realizado y exhortarla a que continúe en esa línea de desarrollo y mejora de este modelo que cabe calificar de único. Asimismo mi delegación quiere asociarse a la petición formulada por la República Federal de Alemania para que, en la forma que estime más adecuada, este documento sea objeto de publicación y difusión en los ambientes agrarios, económicos, e, incluso, entre el gran público.
Almar SAGELVMO (Norway): Norway has participated actively and with great interest in FAO's discussions on the item Agriculture: Toward 2000. We found the report presented to the 1979 Conference comprehensive and very useful, and we have strongly supported FAO's further work in this field. The Norwegian delegation has also studied the revised and updated version of AT 2000 carefully. In our opinion, the present document is even further improved compared with the 1979 version, and we are sure that the study will get worldwide attention.
In Norway we have recently established a public committee to review national agricultural policy and prepare overall guidelines for the coming ten to fifteen years. My Ministry will see to that and the public committee will take due note of the results in FAO's AT 2000.
AT 2000and similar analyses are more or less built on past trends. We are looking at history to address the future. However, the future will never copy history. Extrapolation of past trends will therefore have to be justified by critical analysis of a complex nature. In this respect we would have liked to have seen the study AT 2000more clearly outlining what are statistical trends and what is further analysis.
Having said that, it seems to my delegation that AT 2000may lead to realistic conclusions about the future agricultural and nutritional situation. The overall assessments seem to be positive, but there will still be huge problems to solve. These problems will call upon the capabilities of both developed and developing countries to be addressed properly. There will be a need for policy change. In most developing countries national policies until quite recently gave priority to industrialization. The threat of food shortages, balance of payments problems and debt crisis have led to policy reforms which recognize the essential role of agriculture in economic growth. However, there is still a need for increased weight to be put on the agricultural sector.
Concerning the policy issue, the Norwegian delegation has noted with special interest paragraph 1.97 which states that land redistribution and tenancy reforms are the most fundamental of anti-poverty measures.
My delegation would also like to highlight the need for technological development. As stated in paragraph 1.112, technological change in the agricultural production pattern has been a prerequisite to meet the challenges arising from the increase in world population, and we could do nothing but agree with the text in the same paragraph which says that there is an urgent need to develop and promote technologies that increase or sustain productivity at lower cost and do not harm the environment.
In 1986 FAO submitted the study Africa - The Next 25 Yearsto the African Regional Conference. We are also aware that a similar study will be prepared covering Latin America. The Norwegian delegation will strongly recommend that the FAO makes further analyses of this kind and maybe also assists member countries in making studies at national and even sub-national level.
Abdul Aziz YAACOB (Malaysia): Let me express my appreciation to the Secretariat and to Dr Islam for the effort put into revising this massive study, which yet still remains high in clarity.
In addressing "Agriculture : Toward 2000"we are moving into the realm of projections, of assumptions, the considerations employed, and their implications for national and international strategies. The data and assumptions employed are crucial bases for any projection exercise. They indicate the soundness of the projections that resulted. Can we accept the basis of the forecasting exercise? If we do, we can proceed with some level of confidence in the projections made and address the impli-cations for strategies and policies.
Forecasting is never a perfect exercise, especially if the starting bases are overly optimistic. However, the new downward revisions to more moderate economic growth rates that are employed compared to the previous study, as shown in the Appendix, make us more confident in accepting the general foundations from which the future to the year 2000 is attempted. We are agreeable to this fresh look and the scenario of a slower expansion in demand facing agriculture. We appreciate the Secretariat's awareness of the danger of overreliance on the trend approach to extrapolate into the future in respect of developed countries' performance and of commodities. The marrying of macro and micro approaches through sectoral considerations provides the required adjustments to the basic trend approach.
Can we accept the assumption governing the projection? The main premises are the realization of a freer market, greater capital availability for agricultural commodities and infrastructure investments, the need for an agrarian land reform, a greater stress on extension's role in disseminating appropriate agricultural technology among these rural populations, and the correct priority in national policies given to agriculture aimed at efficiency in production, greater employment of rural and women labour, and the use of aid as no more than an interim measure.
The realization of the projections of agriculture in the year 2000 hinges crucially on the realization of the above assumptions and strategies that ensued. My delegation has some reservation on the use of national self-sufficiency goals of developing countries as starting points for initial assumption. Countries such as Malaysia place more emphasis on food security than on self-sufficiency. Otherwise we can go along with the assumptions adopted in the study.
The Malaysian delegation wholly supports the recommendations on policy and directions for agriculture and food production that countries need to adopt, which include the need for policy changes to give high priority to agricultural production. Malaysia formalized this recommendation in 1984 in the form of the National Agricultural Policy.
We also agree with the recommendation on the need for developed market economies to make the necessary policy reforms in order to solve problems of markets for the exports of developing countries. FAO's view that a slowing down in the developed countries' agricultural production is itself a necessary requirement to solving not only their current surplus problem, but more importantly,- such a strategy provides the solution to the recovery of agricultural production, prices and incomes of producers in developing countries, meets with our approval. Therefore, we fully support the recommendation for elimination of protectionism and the creation of a freer export market for agricultural products in the world economy. We believe that with the present stance of virtually all countries to dismantle trade and non-trade barriers, and with greater international and regional capital flow and cooperation there is a good chance of reaching the projections, given the will of nations.
We wholly agree with the Secretariat's view that the solution to agricultural sector problems requires the complementation of rural industrialization. But the success of rural industrialization and agro-based industries cannot occur under cover of protection on an open-ended basis as this breeds inefficiency and incompetitiveness. For agro-industry to succeed it must be cost competitive. Success of industries will mean higher demand for agriculture's output. But the very macro policies that initially allow the start-up industries cannot be allowed to continue indefinitely as they will definitely breed biases against agriculture itself in the long run. The thrust of agriculture toward the year 2000 must also call for the removal of each macro policy bias. The success of agro-industry must depend on its ability to penetrate into international markets, and this cannot occur with protectionism.
We note with satisfaction the progress in agricultural production in the last decade despite the setback of recession in the mid-eighties. Agriculture's resilience will be further tested to the year 2000 as world population may have increased by an additional one billion people. Widespread hunger will occur unless agricultural and food production more that match the population increase.
The conclusion of the Secretariat's assessment that the future of agriculture's success must come from improved productivity rather than expanding the cultivated area meets with our approval as it not only takes into account the ecological consideration but provides the basis with which the income of farmers can be increased. This strategy provides the most pragmatic approach for countries that suffer from increasing landlessness, declining agricultural terms of trade, and for countries such as Malaysia, the rising cost of labour that threatens to make agriculture less cost competitive. The potential of biotechnology to revolutionize food production can put the Malthusian prognosis off for a long time to come, but this will require national and international funding support in research and development aimed at increasing agricultural food production.
Malaysia not only accords high priority and funding to agricultural research, we believe that we have one of the best research facilities for palm oil, rubber, and certain food crops. We are also supporting a research project to conserve our tropical forests and adoption of FAO's Tropical Forest-ation Plan. We are also increasing allocations to enhance our fisheries resources. Therefore, we are in full accord with the recommendation to place emphasis on conservation and ecology as stated in the study.
Commenting on national requirements, the amount of $1 500 billion of real investments estimated by the year 2000 as shown in Table 4.10 will require a concerted effort to mobilize resources to meet the capital demand. Only the formulation of appropriate national policies can provide the basis from which savings can be generated to meet the investment requirements. Capital assistance and aid can contribute to the investment requirements, but must remain interim in nature. This must be understood by every developing nation if it wishes eventually to be self-reliant and to source funds independently by itself. The solution does not lie elsewhere but must come from the nation itself.
May I suggest that a breakdown of investments required in support services may provide useful guidance compared to the total figures as currently provided by the report.
Jean BANTSIMBA (Congo): La delegation de mon pays a noté avec un vif intérêt les données relatives aux tendances et aux projections que présente le document C 87/27 qui reflètent le sérieux et l'habileté avec lesquels l'étude a été menée.
L'examen de ce dossier lui suggère d'attirer particulièrement l'attention sur le fait que l'amélioration de la situation alimentaire et agricole de l'Afrique au sud du Sahara dépend pour une bonne part:
- de la volonté des pays à traduire dans les faits les recommandations de la Conférence régionale de Yamsoukro;
- de l'augmentation de la productivité agricole grâce à une recherche adaptée et liée à une vulgarisation répondant aux besoins des petits agriculteurs;
- de la mise en place des systèmes d'incitation appropriés;
- de la réduction des inégalités ville-campagne qui aggravent l'exode rural.
Notre délégation pense également que l'environnement économique international constitue un facteur important pour la dynamique de la production alimentaire et agricole dans les pays en développement. Il sera difficile pour ces pays de disposer des moyens nécessaires au financement de l'agriculture tant que subsisteront les principales tares du système économique mondial actuel qui ont été suffisamment relevées dans la série des documents que nous avons examinés et qui concernaient les points 8 et 9 de l'ordre du jour.
Compte tenu de ce qui précède, notre délégation estime que l'élimination des déséquilibres nutri-tionnels et de la faim dans les pays en développement dépendra à la fois du sérieux et de la rigueur que ces pays mettront dans la recherche de solutions et de l'attitude des pays nantis vis-à-vis de la nécessité d'établir un ordre économique mondial au bénéfice de tous.
Mohamed El Bashir MUFABAH (Sudan) (original language Arabic): This document is very comprehensive indeed as far as some of the very important issues are concerned, namely, food and agriculture. I will be basing my comments on our experience in the Sudan, which may be similar to that of some sub-Saharan African countries.
In 1.14 mention was made of an increased productivity from 1969 to 1971 and a recession in 1983/85.
I think the increase was due to two main reasons: the utilization of fertilizers and the mechanization of agriculture.
Regarding the period 1983/85, the drop was due to the prevailing drought at that time. Given that more than 80 percent of the agriculture produced in my country depends upon rainfall, we were greatly affected and the country lost 50 percent of its need of millet, arabic gum, sesame and some other cereals and crops. The number of cattle and animal lost was at around 80 percent as far as cattle and cows, 50 percent of goats, and 70 percent of the equines. Yet nomadic flocks that represent some 80 percent of our wealth were not really affected because they moved to more prosperous areas where it was left dry.
Here I think that it is important for any planner such as this forum to take into account the cycles of drought because it seems that they follow a given pattern. According to my personal experience since I first worked in this field, three waves of drought have occurred at regular intervals. Firstly, there was the drought of 1961/62. Then a new cycle was launched in 1973/74, approximately 11 years after the first wave. Then again we were attacked in 1983/84. That was approximately 10 years after the second wave. We were told that there was a wave of drought in 1938.
Paragraph 1.16 of the document mentions the dependence or the increased reliance of developing countries on the inputs of food. It is true, we cannot deny it, that this is one of the vestiges of colonialism, as it were, because at the time importance was given to crops like cotton which were manufactured and used in the cities; and dairy products, meat production, egg production, were neglected. Of course we recognise the importance of being able to rely on ourselves as far as food production is concerned. Then there was a food security programme adopted by the League of Arab States, of which my country is a member and which held a conference on that issue last January. My country's government adopted the following measures to achieve this goal: first, to increase the area cultivated with wheat; second, to increase dairy production and productivity; third, to compensate growers for the loss due to droughts, so as to encourage them to resume growing and breeding animals.
In fact, there are some factors which can worsen the situation. One can mention, for example, the continuing production of cultivable land in the north of the country; second, the inability of governments to reclaim land in areas where food production can depend only on rainfall. Another shortcoming is the migration towards the cities.
In paragraph 1.25 mention is made of the fact that agricultural exports became a weaker and more uncertain means of growth. Here I should say that these exports are very difficult to sell to markets, because a great measure of our infrastructure is geared now to production in irrigated plots of land in the Sudan. Until the end of the 1940s the earnings were quite interesting, but then these were on the wane because of the competition from synthetic fibres. We believe that international cooperation in agricultural and economic activities should be looked upon as equally important for the maintenance of peace and avoiding wars.
According to paragraph 1.36, people who suffered malnutrition in developing countries stood at approximately between 335-500 million people in 1979/1981. The number increased in the first half of the 1980s, especially in sub-Saharan Africa, because of the drought and because of the rapid population growth.
Mention must be made about the migration to cities which led to a reduction in agricultural production.
Therefore, I think that the Conference might like to adopt a recommendation addressed to sub-Saharan Africa, where a balance should be established between food production in cities and in the rural areas. Youth should be encouraged to go back to their villages to participate in this process. It is up to the international community to continue its contribution and to help save millions of people from famine, as was the case in some sub-Saharan African countries a few years ago.
P.N. BAIGENT (New Zealand): The revised FAO study of Agriculture: Toward 2000 represents a significant and timely focus on the problems and prospects for agriculture over the remaining years of this century. We compliment the Secretariat for what is a most comprehensive and useful review. We agree with the general analysis of the global agricultural situation and outlook for the year 2000, and we note the impressive gains in agricultural production and productivity in many parts of the world. Technological developments and more rational policies have helped many developing countries to increase domestic self-sufficiency levels of food.
These developments are encouraging, but problems remain in particular areas, notably sub-Saharan Africa. It is worrying to read in the report that the growth of production in sub-Saharan Africa could continue to be well below that of population growth, implying rapid growth of imports beyond what is probably feasible if per caput consumption levels were to be maintained even at the current very low levels. That famine conditions could become more widespread and endemic is an alarm that we must all heed. We believe FAO should give even greater attention to improving the outlook for agriculture in this region.
Many of the present-day problems for global agriculture can be attributed to a distorted policy environment and excessive intervention in agriculture. Governments of developed countries have, for a variety of reasons, provided high levels of support to agriculture and insulated producers from competition. As has so often been stated in the last few days, this has led to the generation of enormous surpluses which have been sold on international markets, depressing prices to very low levels.
New Zealand is painfully aware of these problems. As the report points out in para. 7.23, dairy products are among the most protected of all temperate zone agricultural products. The surpluses so encouraged and high export subsidies have led to a collapse in butter prices, for instance, to less than half the level prevailing in the early 1980s. For our farmers this has meant significant reductions in their milk price which was already less than a quarter of that prevailing in most developed countries.
Similar problems are faced by our meat industry, and of course for developing countries the product list is endless.
The effect on developing countries is obvious and we are pleased to see the report emphasizes the need for rational agricultural policies in both developed and developing countries and the need to reduce protection and liberalize trade in agriculture in the new GATT round.
We have already emphasized the need for progress in the GATT round and we hope that a strong statement calling for reform will be made by this Conference. Unless all countries act together to adjust their policies, the outlook for agriculture is indeed very gloomy. But on the brighter side, we note that a number of studies on reform of trade and assistance policies, including the recent one published by OECD, conclude quite clearly that if countries work in concert and reduce protectionist support across the board, both developed and developing countries will benefit. On this general area I must mention that I heard it argued earlier in this debate that countries, which, for some reason, are less advantaged for climatic or other reasons should be allowed to have some protection continued. We oppose that view. Surely trade is based on the fact that because some countries have a comparative advantage of some kind, and can produce things more cheaply, than all will benefit. Are we really questioning the merits of trade in this way? We believe that would be counter-productive for both developed and developing countries.
Reform of trade distorting policies is only one side of the policy reform equation. It must be associated with appropriate reform of national economic policies. Many developed and developing countries are faced with the need to make substantial structural adjustment to correct the distortion of past policies. Policies should be based on overall macro-economic objectives. In developing and low-cost producing countries, the removal of bias against agriculture will allow comparative advantage to prevail and encourage better resource allocation, increased output, and competitive efficiencies in agriculture. For high cost producing countries, adjustment should remove bias towards agriculture with consequential economic benefits for other sectors of their economies.
Reform of trade and national economic policies will result in some pain. In high cost producing developed countries the initial adjustment burden will fall more heavily on farmers. In developing countries and low cost producing countries like New Zealand the burden will fall on manufacturing and other sectors which have enjoyed more favourable treatment in the past, but we believe this pain is worth while and everyone, particularly developed countries, will benefit in the long term. New Zealand's own experience with protection highlights the problems created by policies aimed at encouraging industry. Such policies tax agriculture and artificially raise the profitability of the manufacturing sector. Like New Zealand, developing countries will, we believe, need to dismantle these support structures and allow agriculture to compete and grow on equal terms.
The New Zealand Minister of Agriculture made it quite clear in his statement to Plenary last week that it is a responsibility of all national governments to put in place a market-related policy structure. He highlighted New Zealand's commitment to put its house in order and the fact that action has already been taken to remove distorting assistance and import protection across all sectors of the New Zealand economy.
In the case of agriculture, price supports and import subsidies have been removed and indirect support through government services scaled down. Import protection for manufacturers is being progressively removed, opening the way for more competitive imports. Our financial sector has been deregulated and all foreign exchange controls removed. New opportunities for imports from other countries are already opening up. We welcome that despite the painful adjustment required of certain sectors of our economy. But reciprocal reform is needed from all our trading partners if the full benefit of open two-way trade is to be achieved.
I mentioned in our statement on agricultural adjustment, the importance of rational pricing policy, and we note that this is underlined in the study. In developed countries, producer prices have largely been determined on income adequacy criteria. This has generated huge surpluses and seriously distorted international market prices. A few moments ago we heard the delegate from Belgium highlighting the alternatives that exist for agricultural products, and the fact that there are such substitutes means that we must have realistic prices for farm products, and indeed we should be encouraging low-cost producers. If we do not, their manufacturers will yet again gain at the expense of our farmers. We note, also, that in many developing countries protectionist pricing policies have been incoherent and often undermined by general economic policies like high exchange rates, protection of industry, and incoherent fiscal policies. This has undermined farmers' incentive to produce. We are pleased therefore, to see, however, there is evidence of change and many developing countries have achieved an impressive transformation of the agricultural supply/demand situation by following rational pricing and general economic policies.
I conclude by emphasizing the single most important challenge facing all food producers and consumers - the need for early progress to be made on agriculture in the current GATT round.
Mansur SUGHAYER (Libya) (original language Arabic): I am very glad to take part in the work here. I share the views of those who have spoken before, who have paid tribute to this document "Agriculture: Toward 2000" in its corrected edition. I should like to congratulate the Secretariat. The Organization's ability in analysing and forecasting the outlook for agriculture is excellent. This section is one which is very particular to this Organization. We do not have time now to deal with all the various aspects of the document. I am tempted to deal with all the subjects covered, but I will resist the temptation. Therefore, I shall just make a few comments.
Firstly, we agree in general with the nature of the study and the main conclusions which emerge from it. We note with some concern that the theories, or premises, which were the basis of the previous study are, in fact, too optimistic.
Secondly, Chapter 10, on technological developments of the future, raises very specific major problems. While we agree that biotechnology can help developing countries and give them advantages, these advantages may conceal some dangers for developing countries and their agriculture, and this leads me to stress the fact that the Organization should continue the studies on biotechnology, should try to define what the real meaning of biotechnology is for developing countries, and should try to define the needs of these countries so that this new science could benefit all countries.
Thirdly, and finally, I should particularly like to congratulate the authors of this document on Chapter 11 on environmental aspects of agricultural development. This is a subject that concerns us all, particularly the balance between supply and demand and the possibility of supplying food commodities to the population. All this is extremely important for us, because the basic problem in the environment is linked with policies followed by various countries. There are many and varied technical problems, but we can make great progress if we establish appropriate policies. Developing countries need a lot of training, information and studies in order to be able to preserve their natural resources and to be able to change the course of history in the use of natural products.
This is an excellent document, and we hope it will be acceptable to all.
Mokhtar NAANANI (Maroc): Ma delegation est heureuse de présenter ses compliments à l'équipe du docteur Islam pour l'excellente qualité de la version révisée: Agriculture: Horizon 2000. Certes, une prévision n'a de sens que dans l'environnement des hypothèses sous-jacentes à son élaboration et elle demeure tributaire de la disponibilité et de la qualité des informations chiffrées qui lui servent de support. Néanmoins, ma délégation est convaincue que l'étude qui nous est présentée constitue un cadre indispensable à toute analyse et orientation du développement du secteur agricole, que ce soit dans les pays développés ou dans les pays en voie de développement.
Ma délégation est très satisfaite des améliorations qui ont été apportées à l'étude de 1979, plus particulièrement celle relative à la demande alimentaire, qui était largement surestimée. Ces améliorations ou rectifications se sont avérées nécessaires, eu égard aux bouleversements qu'a connus notre planète depuis 1979, récession, prix de l'énergie, protectionnisme etc.
Ma délégation est persuadée que, dans les quelques années à venir,d'autres transformations de l'économie mondiale se produiront et justifieront une nouvelle rectification des tirs.
Aussi, Monsieur le Président, voudrais-je supporter la délégation de Turquie, qui a suggéré l'actualisation périodique, tous les cinq ans par exemple, de l'étude "Agriculture: Horizon 2000", afin d'intégrer les nouveaux changements socio-politico-économiques à travers le monde.
Dans ce cadre, ma délégation souhaite que ce travail de révision périodique se fasse en étroite collaboration avec les pays membres, pour qu'ils soient associés aux différentes étapes de l'étude. Cette collaboration contribuera à harmoniser les chiffres retenus par l'étude et ceux officiels des pays membres.
Asefa WOLDEGIORGIS (Ethiopia): My delegation has studied the 1987 revised version of "Agriculture: Toward 2000" with great interest. We should like to congratulate the FAO Secretariat on both the quality of the content and the methodology employed in the presentation. This revised version under discussion touches on a number of issues of great concern in world agricultural development. The projections on important key issues are much better than, and show substantial progress as compared with, those of the 1979 forecasts.
In as much as agrarian reform or rural reform policies undertaken now will not show results for several years, considering the lack of accurate data in some countries necessary for proper analysis,, and taking into account the variation of problems from region to region and from country to country, we appreciate the difficulty in making accurate projections on all key issues of agriculture in all countries. Bearing this in mind, my delegation's remarks will be limited to a few key issues.
With regard to agricultural expansion and food self-sufficiency, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa, the projections show much emphasis on rain-fed agriculture, assuming favourable weather conditions. One cannot be too optimistic here until the available irrigable lands come under crops. Irrigation needs much capital movement, and it is in this area that the study needs more emphasis.
Secondly, while the industrialized countries have their animal resources well-developed, it is in the developed countries, particularly Africa, where this resource is not contributing sufficiently to the national economies. We feel this sector deserves more attention and better treatment and support with more projects and funds to enhance development, including application of biotechnology.
As far as agricultural research is concerned, the report underlines the growing dependence of the agriculture of developing countries on research. In this connection, the long-term orientation and the medium-term activities on livestock research, particularly research on livestock nutrition, needs adequate emphasis in the report.
My country has formulated, and just embarked upon, a ten-year agricultural development plan and a three-year programme for food self-sufficiency. In this connection, and in conclusion, I wish to express our support for FAO's strategies in the revised version.
Mme Cristina Isabel DUARTE (Cap-Vert): Parler de l'agriculture à l'horizon 2000 oblige nécessairement à une réflexion sur la famine dans le monde et plus particulièrement en Afrique subsaharienne.
La forte croissance démographique liée à une absence et/ou au manque d'exploitation des ressources a mené à une situation de déséquilibre comme nous le démontre la famine.
La famine en Afrique ne constitue pas seulement une catastrophe de caractère naturel, mais elle est avant tout un mécanisme d'assainissement économique. Les décennies soixante/soixante-dix ont été caractérisées par une absence de politique démographique; on a agi essentiellement sur l'un des bras de la balance, concrètement dans le combat de la mortalité en négligeant le contrôle de la naissance. Ceci a fait que l'Afrique a connu une véritable explosion démographique, sans précédent dans l'histoire. En parallèle, le niveau d'exploitation des ressources s'est maintenu ou n'a pas accompagné l'accroissement démographique.
Le déséquilibre résultant pourrait être redressé par trois moyens:
- en augmentant considérablement le niveau d'exploitation des ressources;
- en contrôlant par des mesures rigides la croissance démographique;
- par ces deux mesures simultanément.
La pratique nous démontre que l'absence d'une de ces deux mesures a fait que la famine a assumé le statut de mécanisme économique visant l'établissement de l'équilibre.
Qui oserait dire qu'en plein milieu du vingtième siècle l'histoire de l'humanité assisterait de nouveau à l'histoire du Moyen-Age, la famine, comme mécanisme économique?
Dans l'Afrique subsaharienne, le nombre de sous-alimentés augmentera de 140 à 200 millions jusqu'à l'année 2000. Si l'on tient compte qu'un sous-alimenté est un affamé mais pas un homme, la situation est très peu encourageante, et nous estimons n'être pas du tout pessimistes en affirmant que l'Afrique, dans les quinze prochaines années devra cohabiter avec la faim dans sa variante d'authentique mécanisme économique.
Gérard VIATTE (Observateur de l'Organisation de Coopération et de Développement économiques): Vous nous avez exhortés à la brièveté, et je vais donc abréger la déclaration que j'avais préparée, tout en vous demandant quelque indulgence puisque c'est en fait la seule déclaration que l'OCDE fera dans l'ensemble de cette Conférence de la FAO.
Si j'ai proposé de m'adresser à vous ce soir, c'est pour deux raisons: les thèmes dont votre commission a traité (situation de l'agriculture, ajustement agricole, et le présente rapport "Agriculture: Horizon 2000) sont d'une très grande importance pour l'ensemble des pays développés à économie de marché et vous l'avez remarqué en écoutant les divers pays membres de l'OCDE au cours de ces débats; deuxièmement, les problèmes relatifs à la politique et aux échanges agricoles ont pris ces derniers mois un relief particulier dans les pays développés et au sein de l'OCDE en particulier, tout en étant situés - et là j'insiste beaucoup - dans le contexte macro-économique général et notamment dans le contexte de l'ajustement structurel auquel toutes nos économies, qu'elles soient développées ou en voie de développement, sont actuellement confrontées.
La crise structurelle qui frappe actuellement l'agriculture des pays développés, et qui se manifeste notamment par les excédents que nous connaissons tous a été largement analysée; on en a analysé les symptômes, les causes et je n'y reviendrai pas. Je me bornerai à indiquer que, pour l'ensemble et dans les grandes lignes, notre analyse rejoint de très près celle de votre rapport "Agriculture: Horizon 2000", et je profiterai de l'occasion pour me féliciter de l'excellente collaboration qui s'est instaurée entre l'OCDE et le Secrétariat de la FAO, et notamment M. Islam et ses collaborateurs, surtout lorsqu'il s'agit d'étudier les problèmes propres aux pays développés membres de l'OCDE.
Je ne reviendrai donc pas sur l'analyse approfondie des causes de cette situation, mais je soulignerai un facteur qui est essentiel, c'est de reconnaître que, au-delà des causes technologiques et économiques qui sont bien connues, les politiques elles-mêmes ont largement contribué à l'aggravation du déséquilibre entre l'offre et la demande.
Nous avons clairement identifié le rôle jouè par les politiques agricoles et par l'ensemble des politiques qui affectent l'agriculture dans l'étude que nous venons de publier, "Politiques nationales et échanges agricoles", qui a été présentée au Conseil des ministres au mois de mai et qui est complétée par une série d'études nationales; cette étude est d'ailleurs largement citée dans votre rapport "Horizon 2000".
Ces travaux ont été menés en recourant à des instruments d'analyse quantitative sur deux points: d'une part la mesure du soutien accordé à l'agriculture et là nous avons utilisé ce concept dont on parle beaucoup et dont on a parlé toute cette semaine ici-même, à savoir le concept des équivalents subventions producteurs ou produce subsid, équivalent (PSE), que nous avons élargi, développé et approfondi pour les pays membres de l'Organisation, en partant des travaux effectués antérieurement par certains chercheurs universitaires et dans certaines organisations telles que la FAO.
Pour notre part, nous avons développé ces calculs en insistant notamment sur les différentes composantes du soutien afin de montrer que ce n'était pas un élément unique mais qu'il ressortait de différentes causes, et aussi en analysant la distribution de ce soutien entre produits.
Second instrument d'analyse, un modèle aussi simple que possible qui nous a permis de mesurer les effets d'une réduction du soutien à l'agriculture.
Si la cause essentielle ou une des causes essentielles du déséquilibre auquel nous sommes confrontés est constituée par les politiques, cela veut dire également que le remède à ce déséquilibre devra être trouvé dans une réorientation de ces politiques et c'est la conclusion majeure à laquelle est arrivé le Conseil des ministres de l'OCDE lors de sa réunion de mai 1987 et qui a affirmé qu'une réforme concertée des politiques agricoles sera mise en oeuvre d'une manière équilibrée. Mais il ne suffit pas d'affirmer au niveau le plus élevé une telle volonté de réforme, encore faut-il en définir les principes et ils ont été effectivement définis par le conseil d'une manière relativement détaillée. Je les résumerai en style télégraphique, pour ne pas abuser de votre temps:
1 - le fondement de cette réforme doit être de permettre aux signaux du marché d'influencer l'orientation de la production agricole;
2 - cette orientation à long terme étant définie, il faut prendre sans attendre des mesures d'urgence pour maîtriser l'offre;
3 - en poursuivant cet objectif d'orientation de la production, il faut tenir compte aussi des considérations relatives à la sécurité alimentaire, à la protection de l'environnement ou à l'emploi;
4 - lorsque les problèmes sociaux, ou des problèmes de revenus résultent de cette orientation des politiques, il faut envisager la possibilité de recourir à des méthodes nouvelles de soutien de revenu, le cas échéant, pour certains groupes d'agriculteurs par des aides directes au revenu qui ne soient pas liées à la production;
5 - cette réorientation des politiques nationales doit trouver son prolongement sur le plan international et, à cet égard, les négociations du GATT pourront jouer un rôle décisif. Et en outre, il
est important que, dans le court terme et dans l'immédiat, des mesures soient prises pour éviter une détérioration plus prononcée des marchés nationaux;
6 - sixième et dernier principe que je mentionnerai brièvement, mais j'y insisterai avec force dans cette enceinte de la FAO, c'est que les ministres de l'OCDE ont souligné l'importance que cette réforme de leur politique pourrait représenter pour les pays en développement. En effet , les pays en développement exportateurs de produits agricoles trouveront avantage au redressement des marchés mondiaux. Les pays en développement importateurs de produits agricoles se verront incités à asseoir leur développement économique sur des bases plus solides, en renforçant leur propre secteur agricole.
Ayant défini ces principes, il est évident qu'une telle réforme, qui est manifestement très ambitieuse ne pourra être réalisée que progressivement et qu'elle prendra du temps. D'ailleurs, j'ai noté le même sens du réalisme dans l'étude de la FAO "Horizon 2000" où il est écrit clairement, que l'ajuste-ment attendu des pays développés est un ralentissement de la croissance de la production mais non pas un arrêt complet de cette croissance.
Cela dit, il ne suffit pas de se mettre d'accord sur des principes, encore faut-il les mettre en oeuvre de manière concrète. A cet égard, et je crois que c'est là la tâche essentielle des pays et de la communauté internationale aujourd'hui, il faut réaliser une convergence des efforts nationaux de réajustement qui sont en tout état de cause nécessaires pour des raisons internes, d'une part, et des efforts internationaux qui ont lieu notamment dans le cadre de l'Uruguay Round, d'autre part. Pour ce qui la concerne , l'OCDE a été chargée d'approfondir ses travaux, de les actualiser, et surtout d'assurer le suivi (ce qu'on a appelé en anglais le monitoring) de la mise en oeuvre des principes et actions sur lesquels le Conseil ministériel s'était mis d'accord.
Dans le contexte de la poursuite de nos travaux, je signalerai notamment que nous actualisons et approfondissons le calcul des ESP, et nous disposons maintenant de données détaillées qui vont jusqu'en 1986. J'ajouterai à cet égard qu'il ne s'agit pas seulement de mettre en oeuvre et d'améliorer les calculs, mais qu'il s'agit aussi de réfléchir aux divers problèmes méthodologiques qui se posent lorsque l'on met en oeuvre un tel instrument, surtout lorsque la possibilité de recourir à un tel instrument est envisagée dans le cadre de négociations.
Le problème agricole restera donc à l'ordre du jour des gouvernements de l'OCDE, qui reviendra sur cette question lors du conseil ministériel de 1988.
Je vous signalerai aussi dans ce contexte que nous entreprenons actuellement une analyse plus fine de l'incidence sur les pays en développement d'une réduction du soutien à l'agriculture dans les pays développés avec l'aide de notre modèle multiproduits/multipays. Je fais cette remarque, Monsieur le Président, parce que j'ai noté, au cours de la journée, que plusieurs délégations ont exprimé de l'intérêt pour une meilleure connaissance des effets d'une réduction de la protection des pays développés sur les pays en voie de développement.
En conclusion, il apparaît que la réorientation des politiques agricoles des pays développés s'en-gage, me semble-t-il, sur une base analytique plus sûre que dans le passé et sur une volonté politique mieux affirmée. La tâche des organisations internationales est, en fonction de leur responsabilité et de leurs compétences propres, d'en assurer la convergence sur le plan international, car un tel effort de réforme des politiques agricoles ne peut, en tout état de cause, être que multilatéral .
Idris M. NUR (Observer for the Organization of African Unity): First, I would like to pay tribute to the Secretariat of the FAO for the efforts undertaken in the preparation of document C 87/27 entitled Agriculture: Toward 2000. The least I can say is that this document is qualified to go into the archives of history.
Secondly, please consider my comments on C 87/27 as constructive criticism, they are meant to improve the quality of the document. I should like to make nine comments.
Comment number one: time and time again throughout the document Africa is classified as "sub-Saharan Africa". May we know the criterion used for classifying Africa, north and south of the Sahara? This classification is non-scientific, it is being used in a scientific document and it does not match the one used by the OAU or the Economic Commission for Africa. According to the map of the world, there is only one Africa, but according to this document there are two Africas. No explanation was given in the document as to why the FAO Secretariat used this type of classification.
Food and agriculture cannot be classified as north or south of the Sahara. It can be classified on the basis of ecology as ecology affects food and agriculture, both in quality and quantity. Half of Africa's nations are partly or completely in arid or semi-arid zones. The arid lands of Africa fall into three broad geographic sub-regions: first, the North African sub-region comprising some 46 million hectares of arid lands between isohyets of 100 and 400 millimetres; secondly, the West African sub-region which occupies an area of some 140 million hectares located between isohyets of 200 and 600 millimetres; thirdly, the East and Southern African sub-regions arid lands occupy an area of 223.4 million hectares, located between isohyets of 200 and 600 millimetres, while the desert covers some 155 million hectares in the area receiving less than 20 millimetres of average precipitation.
Comment number two: with respect to the question of surplus in agricultural produce and food products, as indicated in a number of pages of the document, including pages 9, 59 and 90, my delegation believes that the document did not go to sufficient length with respect to the question of surplus in agricultural produce. It is noticeable that the encouraging situation of having surplus food material from the developed and developing countries resulted in negative returns and a policy of price war. The reason for such a situation is the status of surplus grain in the world market which has led to unfavourable prices.
Outlets for surplus agricultural products are not easy to find or economic to handle. Most of the traditional markets could not be approached as the latter have reached the stage of food self-sufficiency. How can we tackle the problem of having surplus in agricultural produce? My delegation thinks that the question of having surplus in agricultural produce could be tackled in two ways, by diversification of agriculture and by concentration on animal husbandry. But the implementation of the said two measures will give rise to another problem in due course, by having surplus from another source. Thus the problem of surpluses will continue, and instead of having a surplus in grain only there will be a surplus in other types of foodstuffs. My delegation hopes that the FAO Secretariat will comment on this point also.
Comment number three: On page 12 and other subsequent pages of the document reference has been made to the question of intensification and diversification of agriculture. No mention has been made of the requirements of intensification on vertical expansion and of diversification on horizontal expan-sion. It is a fact that the coefficient of variability, that is the c.v., of the number of crops grown in a country's economy affects the stability of aggregate income, which also affects diversification. How about diversification in horticultural crops, and vegetables? Regional cooperation in the area of diversification will lead to economic returns and division of labour.
Comment number four: in several parts of the document reference has been made to biotechnology. Biotechnology is the fastest growing industry in the world today. Its new interventions could totally transform major industries, agriculture, livestock breeding and forestry. There are no regulations or mechanisms in most Third World countries for the testing and marketing of biotechno-logical products. There are also certain hazards accompanying biotechnology. Third World countries could plug in to adaptable technology that is based on their social and cultural needs and not determined by pursuit of profits. On the other hand, biotechnology could bring about products which could compete with and substitute for some of the crops grown in the Third World, for example crops like indigo, coffee, oil crops. This will uproot the export base and will drastically affect the economic structure of these countries.
Comment number five: the discussion on the question of agricultural research was highlighted in the document in a number of pages, including pages 153, 235 and Chapter 10. Farming requires factors of production, for example improved seeds, research, extension, fertilizers, technology, marketing, etc., delivered at the right time to the right place and in the right quantity. Thus agricultural research is only one of the inputs, and it needs the reaction of the other elements contained in the package of improved production.
African agricultural research is, however, extensive and impressive, both from the point of view of depth of coverage and that of analytical content. It could be said that the actual problem is the communication and application of available knowledge by farmers; in other words, the dissemination of available information on the outcome of research to the farmers is a crucial problem that calls for immediate action in Africa.
While tackling the prominent problem of agricultural extension in Africa, there is need for investigation of the situation where male extension workers are expected to advise the women farmers. Women farmers occupy a dominant role in Africa's agricultural development and production. We should stress the following points in relation to agricultural extension. In Africa we need: effective extension programmes; extension workers who start from the ground upwards; qualified extension workers; extensive national campaigns to be conducted every season for increasing the production of major crops.
I should also like to refer to page 243 of the English text, paragraph 10.53. Whenever extension workers start supplying farmers with inputs like fertilizers, seeds, etc., as stated in the document, extension will move its value as an educational institution. In reality, extension is education, and on writing the word "extension" and below it the word "education" you will see that they are similar. Extension should always be confined to educating the rural people; supplying inputs to farmers should be the work of other institutions.
The success of African countries in injecting and promoting appropriate and suitable technology in rural areas will depend upon their success in developing adequate infrastructure facilities such as transportation, storage, handling, processing and distribution systems, which are necessary software components of technology.
Equally important in the development and application of suitable technology in Africa is the creation of a conducive environment that encourages rural people effectively to use their resources and skills and increase their technological competence to enable them fully to participate in and contribute to the process of change.
Agricultural cooperative organizations can often facilitate the use of improved technologies. Apart from marketing and input supply, they make possible the joint use of farm machinery and of post-harvest equipment for such purposes as threshing, drying and milling.
Land tenure systems are in general less of an obstacle to technological improvement in Africa than to the rest of the developing world. There are problems in some areas, however, including nomadic grazing rights, insecure tenure that limits both the possibility of obtaining credit and the incentive to carry out improvement. The division and fragmentation of holdings on inheritance, and the frequently small, scattered and. irregular plots inhibit the use of almost any mechanical equipment.
Comment number six: in some pages, like page 124 of the document, reference has been made to the use of organic manures. Experience has shown that on using organic manure, for improving the . nutrient status of the soil and under specific humid conditions termites will build up and will attack and damage the standing crop or crops. This constitutes one of the disadvantages of the use of organic manures. It is worth mentioning that the primary factor limiting plant growth in most African soils is phosphorus deficiency.
Comment number seven: on the question of macroeconomics referred to in Chapter 8, page 200 of the English text of the document, the basic problems of African agricultural development reside in the subsistence sector where the macroeconomic imperatives of demand, the supply situation and the structure are not known with any degree of accuracy. This sector constitutes some 58 percent of the total agricultural production, the percentage varying according to the degree of modernization of the economy.
Comment number eight: agricultural mechanization has been referred to in page 142 of the document, at paragraph 4.73. There are usually four recognized sources of energy supply to agriculture: manual, animal, intermediate mechanization and advanced mechanization. Agriculture in Africa is at various stages of the first two sources and cannot meet the demands of the population. African agriculture cannot by-pass intermediate mechanization because farm sizes are small, farmers are poor, many farms are inaccessible, and modern machines are meant for advanced steps in advanced mechanization. To narrow the energy gap we need to obtain machinery for the intermediate mechanization. Manufacturers of agricultural machinery manufacture for their own markets machinery which is too advanced for African agriculture. African agriculture needs a full line of economical, simplified and compact farm machinery so articulated that each unit is harmoniously linked to the other, and the machines must be low cost, multi-purpose and easy to maintain. This situation calls for joint action by the governments of developing countries for the establishment of factories for the production of appropriate machinery for the intermediate mechanization of agriculture.
We also need to intensify the use of improved hand tools and draught animals, establish fixed and mobile repair units, and arrange for the supply of spare parts. Cooperative ownership and management of machinery should be encouraged.
It is worth mentioning that mechanization schemes using tractors have met with limited success in the humid tropics due to the high capital costs relative to available resources, the scale of farmers operations, and the lack of know-how. in equipment use and maintenance.
Comment number nine: my delegation would have liked to see in document C 87/27 one section on follow-up and on ensuring that Member Nations are prepared and up-to-date with the situation, and also one or more paragraphs on the following: regional cooperation and its role in increasing food and agricultural production, for example in technology, diversification of agriculture, etc.; untapped resources for securing more food; brain drain and proposals to reverse it so as to retain trained manpower in the area of food, agriculture and economic development; strengthening subject matter specialists; residual effect of mineral fertilizers; reference should be made to the operational studies that have been adopted in the different regions, for example in Africa reference could be made to AFPLAN, African Agriculture in the Next 25 Years, WCARRD, LPA (Lagos Plan of Action), APPER (Africa's Priority Programme for Economic Recovery 1986-1990), UNPAAERD (United Nations Programme of Action for African Economic Recovery and Development 1986-1990). This document stresses the same issues as that of the document"Agriculture: Toward 2000".
Climatic changes have become the order of the day in Africa and they drastically affect food and agriculture production. The drought comes in cycles every eleven years. The other point is that 11 million hectares of tropical forest are lost every year. This will result in desertification or desert creep that ultimately results in arid conditions.
I would like to conclude my comments by stating that it is important to prepare studies in the sectors of food and agriculture, but it is equally important to resolve the problems identified by the study.
Nurul ISLAM (Special Adviser to the Director-General): We are very grateful to the delegates for their very helpful comments and suggestions on the study "Agriculture: Toward 2000".
The study, as some delegates emphasized, is not a forecast or a prediction of the future. It is a projection based upon certain well stated, clarified assumptions. Therefore, on the basis of these assumptions, it is an attempt to derive a reasoned estimate of future development in world food and agriculture. The methodology used in the current study is roughly the same as that used in the earlier study. The basic approach of the revision "Agriculture: Toward 2000" was not to repeat all of the quantitative exercises that had been done in the earlier study, but to be selective. The emphasis was on important policy issues that were considered to be of critical importance in the next 15 to 20 years. Even so, not all the issues were taken up for detailed consideration, only a few.
There are other publications undertaken in the last two or three years that have covered some of the other issues in greater detail. This refers to the three particular issues selected for special treatment, which were environment, technological development for the.future and policy issues for the 1980s and beyond. Any such selection would be partly arbitrary but in the judgment of the Secretariat these issues deserve fuller treatment than others. Of course, time and resources available at the disposal of the study also greatly influenced the choice of subjects to be emphasized. That is why, for example, food aid requirement estimates were not repeated this time, nor detailed treatment of the requirements of manpower, training, etc. The food aid requirement exercise is usually undertaken in the course of our ongoing work periodically on food aid and food security.
Again, in the recently completed study on Africa some of the issues relating to Africa have been discussed in much greater detail, for example, population problems and the African agricultural rural development issues have been discussed in detail in the African studies. Again, in the Latin American studies to be submitted next year to the Conference, some of the issues will be discussed in greater detail than in the present study. My comments so far are just to explain why some issues are emphasized and some others are left out.
One delegate has suggested that FAO should undertake an analysis of deviations from the trend projections, periodically, analysis of the cause of deviation from the trend, and the consequences of such deviations for the future. This is indeed a welcome suggestion and some attempt is made, rough and ready, in the State of Food and Agriculture looking at current developments in the light of this kind of framework, but more work hopefully can be done in this regard.
A question has been asked about the rate of growth in agricultural production that has been projected in the study at 3.4 percent which is not too optimistic even for Africa. At this rate of growth, if you measure it from the average of 1983/85, this is how it appears. But if it is measured from the post-drought period after 1985 the rate of growth post-drought in the study would appear to be 3.1. And the rate of growth achieved by African agriculture during the 1961/70 period was 2.8. So the increase is a very modest one ..On a per capita basis there is no increase at all; the rate of growth of production barely keeps up with the increase in population. These details are worked out in the early African study and the consequences and requirements of such a rate of growth are spelled out in greater detail in the study. Therefore, they are not taken up in the current study.
Reference was made to the need for FAO to undertake a quantification of the impact of liberalization of trade in developed countries on developing countries and the world trade food security. As you will recall, earlier this year in the Committee on Food Security such a comprehensive review of existing studies quantifying such effects was presented and was discussed. The current report summarizes these findings and updates them.
Questions have been asked about the possibility for us to compare the earlier A T 2000 and the present one in terms of some basic assumptions. I can illustrate by referring to some of the key parameters of the earlier study and compare them with the current one. For example, population growth, assumed in the earlier study was 2.4 percent. The revised projections of populations undertaken in the United Nations bring it down to 2.2 percent. So this assumption has changed in the new study.
Referring to DGP growth rates, there are two scenarios, as you will recall, in the earlier study. In the optimistic scenario the rate of growth postulated was 7 percent consistent with the new international development strategy for the third development decade. The less optimistic scenario assumed 5.7 percent. In the current study in the light of later development and studies undertaken not by FAO but by other agencies about the future prospects of world economic growth and the developing countries' income growth, the rate assumed was 4.4 percent as against 7 and 5.7 percent. For developed market economy countries GDP growth assumed in the earlier study was 3.1 percent, and the current one 3.3 percent. For the centrally-planned economies the rate of growth assumed for the earlier study was 4.2 percent, 3.5 percent, and the current one 3.7 percent, These are illustrative of the differences in assumptions made in the two studies.
A suggestion was made that there should have been a greater in-depth treatment of the effect of debt on the food and agriculture sector. There is a short treatment in the document on pages 203 and 204, and it has been suggested by some delegates that consideration should be given to a fuller treatment of the subject in any of the forthcoming issues of the State of Food and Agriculture. The Secretariat has taken note of the suggestion.
The forthcoming study on Latin American food and agriculture will deal with the impact of debt and structural adjustment on Latin American food and agriculture.
A question was asked as to why self-sufficiency, or that at least it appears from the reading of the document it is suggested that all countries at all times should try to achieve self-sufficiency in food production. That is not the objective of the study. The method of analysis in arriving at the estimates is as follows: given the expected increase in demand arising out of assumed increase in population, the question has been posed as to how each of the countries can meet its demand requirements consistently with (1) its agro-ecological characteristics and (2) reasonable costs. So it is not uniform advice that all countries should achieve self-sufficiency. The intention is to estimate the possibilities of increasing food production in each of these countries consistently with these two constraints. The results have been presented in terms of self- sufficiency ratios to illustrate or to emphasize as an indicator how much of the requirements will be met from domestic production. In fact, as you look into the figures you will find the import requirements for food by the developing countries as a whole go up over the next ten, fifteen years.
Why is the estimate of the undernourished population in the A T 2000 current study different from the World Bank estimate of undernourished population? This is due to the differences in the minimum requirement level or cut-off point used for classifying when an individual is undernourished and also due to the difference in the methodology of taking into account the distribution of dietary energy within a country in the analysis. If you will recall, the World Bank publication in a footnote points out these differences. Therefore, there should be no occasion for misunderstanding. Because of the many uncertainties and difficulties in setting up this cut-off point for estimating the undernourished population, FAO has taken a rather conservative approach in its assessment and used cut-off points which are lower than that of the World Bank. The difference between the fourth and the fifth World Food Survey from which the estimates are derived in terms of methodology and data is due to the differences in the methodology between these two studies as well as in the expansion and modification of the data base.
A large number of suggestions have been made for further studies. The Secretariat has taken careful note of the suggestions made by the delegates. For example, a suggestion has been made that we should study more carefully the impact of environmental degradation, deforestation, etc., on the future of food and agriculture. There was a suggestion that the long-term changes in climate and the impact on food and agriculture sector should be studied.
Suggestions have been made that lack of data seriously constrains a study such as this. This is indeed true, and it was pointed out in the last study also that this is a very serious stumbling block in the way of any such study relating to developing countries. Lack of adequate and reliable data continues to be serious and unless the basic statistical systems and data collection are greatly expanded and improved in the developing countries, these studies will remain subject to serious deficiencies. This data requirement also constrains very significantly the methodology, the degree of sophistication of methodology which can be applied for undertaking such a study. For example, income distribution. Suggestions have been made, questions have been raised, that the study does not incorporate in the framework of analysis consequences for income distribution growth, or the consequences of the impact of income distribution and growth, interrelations between the two. Such sophisticated analysis could not be carried out with the present state of data and the methodology that we have at our disposal.
Questions have been raised about centrally-planned economies, that our estimates may be too pessimistic. It is quite conceivable that we have not done any original study country by country of these centrally-planned economies in Europe. We have based our findings basically on existing studies made by others on the centrally-planned economies of Europe.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you Dr Nurul Islam.
In this discussion which started late yesterday evening 34 representatives and two observers have participated.
Guy FRADIN (France): Excusez-moi, Monsieur le President, de reprendre la parole et merci de me l'avoir donnée.
Avant que vous ne fassiez votre synthèse, je voulais quand même demander à nouveau une précision au Secrétariat: ma délégation a exprimé son désappointement d'avoir reçu le document en français extrêmement tard et de n'avoir puy, travailler. J'ai présenté une demande concernant l'examen ultérieur de ce document, qu'en est-il? Le Secrétariat a-t-il une réaction là-dessus?
Rafael MORENO ROJAS (Subdirector General a.i., Departamento de Política Económica y Social): La úni-ca reacción que podemos tener es pedir las excusas debidas, dado que efectivamente hubo un retardo en el despacho y en la edición final de alguna versión, como aquí ha sido previsamente señalado. Nos excusamos; ha sido un retraso involuntario involuntario; estuvo más allá de la capacidad de control de la Secretaría, y el punto es válidamente planteado por la Delegación de Francia y otras delegaciones que aquí lo han hecho ver durante el debate.
CHAIRMAN: I would supplement what Dr Moreno has said by adding that, in case any delegates feel that on careful study of the documentation there are some essential comments to furnish, these could be made available to the Secretariat so that they could be incorporated into any futher documentation FAO brings out.
Summing up the discussion, the general consensus was that there was a lot of appreciation for the document, and especially for the more extensive country coverage and the inclusion of national topics. It was clear that the FAO Secretariat had benefited from the experience it had had in preparing the first Report in 1979. Therefore, as we all expected, the second Report was better.
An anxiety expressed by everybody referred to the shortage of food, particularly in some of the developing countries, where, to make up the shortage, agricultural activities possibly have to be extended more and more to ecologically-fragile zones, thereby jeopardizing the environment. Many delegates stressed the importance of environmental and climatic factors. They noted with approval the chapter on Environmental Aspects of Agricultural Development, and they also suggested that the links between resource speculation such as deforestation, climate, poverty and agricultural production growth should be more closely explored.
As has happened in discussion in Commission I, when we considered the earlier agenda items, the issues of international trade and policy reform also drew particular attention. A number of delegates expressed concern that the under-nourished were anticipated to be greater at 2000 than today, and that for some regions the changes indicated gave cause for great concern. In general the delegates were distressed to note that food security was unlikely to be realised during this century.
The impact of macro-economic policies, debt management and structural adjustment on the demand for agricultural products and the performance of the agricultural sector was referred to by several delegates, as also was the role of the public sector. A number of delegates drew attention to the assumption and methodology of the debt study and to the differences between these and those used in the earlier survey, leading to more realistic conclusions.
Dr Islam has referred to some of the changes and the methodology that was adopted in some detail in his reply to the debate. However, some delegates suggested that analysis of alternate assumptions concerning key variables would have been helpful better to understand prospects for the future. Among the topics suggested for deeper analysis were the impact of alternative rates of economic growth, higher energ.y costs, alternative levels of financial resources from external and internal sources for agricultural development.
There is also a lot of emphasis on the need for improving data base and data collection. There is a general feeling that the study deserves to be published as was the earlier study. There is also a feeling that, based on the findings of the study and its conclusions, the need for re-orienting the activities, policies and programmes of FAO also requires to be gone into.
There is a general feeling that some follow-up action on the Report is warranted, particularly in the background of regional studies such as those on Africa and Latin America which have already been launched. There is also a feeling that biotechnology and research require greater emphasis.
In concluding the discussion, I do hope that delegates will agree with me when I express the hope that, just as the 1979 study proved to be incorrect in certain respects, the present "Agriculture: Toward 2000" will also prove to be wrong. I hope the rates of agricultural production will be higher than anticipated. I hope that the population growth rates will be lower than anticipated. I hope the consumption and demand patterns, particularly in developing countries, will be higher than has been anticipated. I will be happy to see that the population of under-nourished people will be lower than has been predicted. If all these hopes are realised, I am confident that in the third conference after this there will be a need to bring up yet another "Agriculture: Toward 2000".
Rafael MORENO ROJAS (Subdirector General a.i., Departamento de Política Económica y Social): Habién-dose terminado la discusión de este tema quisiera solamente hacer constar, a nombre de la Organización, nuestra gratitud al Profesor Nurul Islam por haber aceptado venir desde su nuevo cargo en el IFPRI en Washington, para acompañarnos en el debate de los temas en los cuales el ha tenido la responsabilidad de conducir por largos anos las investigaciones, al mismo tiempo que ha sido la persona que ha representado a la Organización en los debates de la Conferencia.
Quisiera colocar, no sólo en el verbatim, sino expresar en esta Comisión y a través de ella a la Conferencia, la gratitud y el aprecio que la Organización le expresa por haber tenido el gesto de querer compartir con nosotros su conocimiento y su experiencia en los temas que son largamente por él conocidos.
Applause
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Aplausos
CHAIRMAN: I would now suggest that we go back to agenda Item 9. I would draw delegates' attention to document C 87/LIM/39 which contains appendices A and B which present the resolutions cleared by the Resolutions' Committee. We will now take up those two resolutions so that our discussions on agenda item 9 can be completed. There are two possible approaches we can take: one, we can take appendix A and appendix B separately and pass both the resolutions if the Commission feels that both those resolutions deserve to be passed. The second alternative is to try to see whether what has been expressed in both those resolutions could not be brought into one resolution if the Commission feel that would be better. These are the alternatives I would request you to consider.
Tawfiq Ahmed Hassan AL MESH-HADANI (Iraq) (original language Arabic): Having gone through appendices A and B, I have noticed that both the items cover the same subject. Looking at paragraph 4 of appen-dix A and the last paragraph of appendix B, in substance they say the same thing. The only difference is one of wording. Therefore, we could merge both Resolutions into one before we decide upon it.
Patrick O'QUIN (France): Oui, Monsieur le Président, je souhaiterais effectivement soutenir la proposition qui vient juste d'être faite. Je crois que notre commission avait montré une grande unanimité lors des débats consacrés à ce point, et je crois qu'il serait un petit peu dommage de présenter deux résolutions, ce qui laisserait supposer que nous nous sommes séparés sur ce point, alors que cela ne me paraît pas refléter la teneur des débats.
CHAIRMAN: If the general consensus is that, instead of two resolutions, we should have one, then we have two courses of action open to us: one, to try to debate in this group of 158 nations how exactly these two resolutions should be merged into one; the second alternative is to indicate these guidelines to our Drafting Committee which, if need be, in consultation with the sponsors of the two resolutions, will finalize a common draft which could then come before the Commission. May I request your reactions.
Tawfiq Ahmed Hassan AL MESH- HADANI (Iraq) (original language Arabic): I would rather have the Drafting Committee look into the marriage of both Draft Resolutions.
CHAIRMAN: Do I take it that the Commission agrees?
Sra. Mercedes FERMIN-GOMEZ (Venezuela): Con todas mis excusas, yo no estoy de acuerdo con que estas dos resoluciones puedan ser resumidas en una sola, porque la finalidad con que se presenta esta resolución, que tiene un sólo artículo resolutivo, es buscar hacia el futuro - y así lo dije en mi intervención de ayer - la posibilidad de que la FAO, que hasta ahora ha venido teniendo muy dispersa, en muchos programas, la atención a la mujer, tuviera en el futuro, no ahora, porque su presupuesto no se lo permite, una Comisión de la Mujer que pudiera integrar todos los programas que ahora están dispersos en muchos programas y muchas comisiones. Esta es la finalidad de esa resolución.
La otra resolución está pidiendo muchas cosas, unas que se están cumpliendo por la FAO, y otras que están reclamando gastos presupuestarios que la FAO no puede hacer, como incluir varias mujeres en las oficinas o en programas de capacitación, cosas que, a mi juicio, son útiles pero que no creo que sean prácticas porque la FAO está siendo víctima de una reducción de presupuesto que le haría no poder cumplirlo.
Por ello creemos que mezclar una cosa con otra, diluiría el objetivo de esta resolución que es muy concreta, que tiene una sola finalidad, y, al mismo tiempo, perturbaría, digamos, la posibilidad de lograr este objetivo porque los otros no se si van a poder ser atendidos por la FAO.
En todo caso, la Asamblea es soberana y ella decidirá, pero será con mi voto en contra. Gracias.
CHAIRMAN: The delegate from Venezuela has made the point that she would rather the two resolutions stood alone, separately. One possibility is that the operational points in Appendix A, which are six, and the operational point in Appendix B, which is one, should be merged together into one common resolution which could be hammered out by the Drafting Committee, if need be, in consultation with the sponsors of the resolutions at Appendix A and Appendix B. The second possibility, as urged by the delegate from Venezuela, could be to leave them apart and consider and deal with them separately. The matter is before the house.
Ms Susan ULBAEK (Denmark): The Nordic countries see no problem with merging the two resolutions. We think they go very well in line. We are asking for an action plan, and the delegate from Venezuela is asking for a meeting to discuss this action plan. We think they could go very well together.
CHAIRMAN: Are there any other views?
Sra. Mercedes FERMIN-GOMEZ (Venezuela): Con todo respeto a la distinguida delegación de Dinamarca, yo debo aclarar que en mi resolución no estoy pidiendo un plan de acción. Nosotros no sabemos qué podría hacer una reunión de expertos - que es lo que yo pido - con el problema de la mujer que FAO confronta. La FAO tiene numerosos programas; ha tomado en el curso de más de 10 años numerosas resoluciones con diferentes orientaciones para ocuparse del problema de la mujer, y todavía tenemos una serie de aspectos en la vida de la mujer en el medio rural, que es a la cual nos concretamos en cuanto a la posibilidad de su mejoramiento, que no se han cumplido.
La mujer se siente víctima de discriminación en muchísimos países en donde ella recibe la peor carga, porque lleva la doble carga de madre, dueña de casa, productora, trabajadora, y en algunos casos, casi de bestia de carga, con mi respeto y admiración para ella. Pero en otras partes, la mujer todavía sigue siendo analfabeta, no tomada en cuenta para nada; ella no puede ser propietaria de tierra, ella no puede recibir créditos porque está en una posición capitidisminuida, porque tiene un marido, un hermano, un tío,en definitiva cualquier masculino, que la domina. Todas éstas son situaciones que deben ser estudiadas en un contexto de dar a la mujer un mejoramiento global de su vida. Por ello, cuando pido una reunión de expertos no estoy pidiendo un plan de acción, porque un plan de acción no resuelve esto; pido la posibilidad de que se estudie - pero eso sería cuando existiera la reunión de expertos - la perspectiva de que los estudios de la situación de la mujer se enfoquen para la creación de una Comisión de la Mujer en la FAO así como tenemos la Comisión de Productos Básicos, la Comisión que estudia los cereales, y todas esas comisiones que la FAO tiene. Yo sé que en este momento no es posible que la pidamos, pero cuando se logre esa reunión de expertos no vamos a pedir un plan de acción más-porque ya hay varios planes de acción aquí, en diferentes resoluciones - vamos a pedir algo permanente, un órgano nuevo creado en la FAO para atender a las necesidades de la mujer en el globo y que no pueden ser atendidas en un solo plan de acción. Lo que pido es algo más concreto y más contundente, más efectivo y eficiente. Por esa razón es por lo que pido la reunión de expertos, porque no parece que eso se vaya a resolver en una sola reunión; pudiera ser que esa reunión crease un órgano para dedicárselo antes de que se haga la comisión. Esa era la razón por la cual yo decidí que fuera una sola parte resolutiva, en vez de diluirla en cuatro o cinco, y que se dedicara exclusivamente a la posibilidad de lograr esto para la mujer, para darle la importancia que nosotros consideramos que ella debe tener dentro de la atención que la FAO debe prestarle.
CHAIRMAN: I do not want to appear to be an MCP, but I must confess that I am at a loss, as I am sure many other delegates would be, to know what we should do when two distinguished women delegates are not able to agree on the role of women in development as embodied in these two resolutions.
Patrick O'QUIN (France): J'en viens presque à regretter, tout à l'heure, la proposition que j'ai faite en soutenant un de nos collègues, en entendant les explications données par le représentant du Venezuela. En France, on dit traditionnellement que, lorsque l'on veut enterrer un problème on crée une commission. Je crains que la proposition qui soit faite soit exactement de cet ordre-là.
Deuxièmement, je crois également qu'il n'est pas dans le rôle de la FAO de se transformer en organi-sation consacrée à la condition féminine. Une commission de la femme au sein de la FAO ne me paraît pas trouver sa place logique, ni normale. La FAO doit se consacrer plutôt à des programmes qui soient des programmes convaincants et c'est pour cela qu'en tout état de cause si l'on devait fusionner les deux textes, il serait pour ma délégation, inacceptable, de voir créer une commission de la femme au sein de cette Organisation.
Yiadom K. ATTA-KONADU (Ghana): I should like to request the two sponsors of the resolution to agree to the merger. Going through the two resolutions, there are clearly common areas of concern. I think we all share these concerns. We are prepared to help to rehabilitate women to enable them to become more useful at home and in the field. We also share the concern that the FAO is seriously looking at ways of cutting down costs. Some delegates will know that Commission II is having problems in adopting the Programme of Work and Budget. In the interests of economy and the interests of women, these two resolutions should be merged. My delegation would like to be associated with a merged resolution and is willing to sponsor it.
Raul LOPEZ LIRA (Mexico): Dentro del sistema de Naciones Unidas hay varias resoluciones tendentes a fortalecer la posición de la mujer, y, sobre todo, a reconocer la importante labor que tiene la mujer en todas nuestras economías. Por tal motivo, yo quisiera apoyar la proposición de la Embajadora de Venezuela.
Ms Joan DUDIK-GAYOSO (United States of America): Mr Chairman, I know that your remark was made with the best will in the world, but we must get over pointing out whether or not two women who are proposing resolutions can agree. These two resolutions were both proposed by delegations. I do not think there were any similar comments made in other Commissions, where agreement has also been very difficult to reach, and most of the speakers have been male. I think it is an indication of how hard it is for all of us to work out how to address these kinds of problems.
My delegation would suggest that this is not a problem of merging two resolutions. I think it is much more a question of substance than a question of format: does all of this fit in one resolution or does it not? Listening to what the delegate of Venezuela has said, I think what she is proposing is an alternative to some of the proposals in the Nordic resolution. It would seem to me that would be a matter of greater concern to this body than whether we have one resolution or two. I think we need to look at the resolutions, talk about what they mean and ask ourselves what it is that we want the FAO to do.
From her remarks, I do not think it is readily apparent to the delegate of Venezuela that what she is proposing could be incorporated under a plan of action. As I understand her resolution, what she is proposing is a meeting of experts to develop a plan of action, or a series of actions. Maybe she does not want to call it a plan of action. I think we need to deal with the substance, and perhaps that will get us out of some of the difficulties we are in as to whether we need one resolution or two. I do not know whether we should be dealing with that issue of substance in such a large body as this one or whether some other sort of arrangement should be made. I leave that to others to consider.
CHAIRMAN: I should like to offer a sincere apology to all the distinguished lady delegates if I did sound like an MCP. I prefaced my remarks by saying that I did not want to do that. If I did, my apologies are there to all the lady delegates.
The proposal before us is: shall we debate here each of these resolutions and try to finalize them, or shall we refer them to a smaller group, possibly the Drafting Committee? What is the sense of the house?
Ismael DIAZ YUBERO (España): He leído los dos proyectos de resolución atentamente y tengo que decir que estoy perfectamente de acuerdo con los dos. Creo que los dos proyectos de resolución entran totalmente dentro de las competencias de la FAO a pesar de que por alguna delegación no se haya juzgado de esta forma.
El problema, quizás, no sea en estos momentos tanto el de si se trata de una o dos resoluciones, sino de un problema de fondo, como me parece que acaba de decir la delegada de Estados Unidos. Quizás el problema sería ver la posibilidad de, dando una nueva redacción sobre todo a los conside-randos previos, incluir también las partes dispositivas de las dos resoluciones. Pero creo que esto no tiene ninguna importancia. Si esto no se consigue, por mi parte yo estoy dispuesto a votar las dos resoluciones independientemente una de la otra, porque aunque son cosas que tienen algunas simi-litudes, son también suficientemente distintas y además con las dos estoy total y absolutamente de acuerdo.
Tawfiq Ahmed AL MESH-HADANI (Iraq)(original language Arabic): My proposal to merge both draft resolutions was merely a procedural proposal. Perhaps I do not agree on the substance of some of the paragraphs in the first draft resolution because of the financial implications of such paragraphsc But when I said that we needed to merge both draft resolutions before we submitted them to the Drafting Committee, I made that proposal because I thought that would make life easier for us all, so that both draft resolutions can be transmitted to the Drafting Committee and be discussed there.
CHAIRMAN: The issues before us are first: what are the substantive portions of the two resolutions? Do they meet with general approval? Secondly, should they be combined into one or should they stand apart? If they are to be combined into one, who is to do the combining? These are the three issues. I take it that the general feeling seems to be that because of the specific views expressed by the sponsors of the resolutions, the Commission may consider these two resolutions separately. Would that meet with general approval? If so, we can take each of these resolutions one by one, discuss them, take a view and pass them.
Washington ZUÑIGA TRELLES (Perú)s Acabo de leer los dos textos de las resoluciones y me parecen realmente distintos, como lo manifiesta la ilustre delegada de Venezuela. Además, de acuerdo con el primer párrafo del Comité de Resoluciones, se dice lo siguiente: "Los textos de estas resoluciones se consideraron procedentes y se transmiten con la presente a la Comisión I para debate." Con ello prácticamente se da cierta diferenciación a las dos resoluciones porque creo que la Comisión de Resoluciones hubiese optado por recomendar que se unan, de haber aprobado una de ellas. No sé cuál sea el procedimiento, cuál sea la hermenéutica, pero mi delegación apoya a la de Vene-zuela porque considera que .embas resoluciones son distintas: una pide un plan de acción y la otra pide una reunión de expertos.
CHAIRMAN: As far as I can understand the delegate of Peru, the Resolutions Committee only pronounces on the question of whether these resolutions are receivable or not. It is up to the Commission to decide to pass as many resolutions as it wishes. That seems to be right. I take it that the sense of the house is that we should take these resolutions separately, discuss them and decide on them. Does this meet with general approval? If so, we shall take Appendix A first. Are there any views on Appendix A or shall we adopt it as it is?
Magalela NGWENYA (Swaziland): I have only one question with respect to Appendix A, just for clarification. Paragraph 4 says "include verification and monitoring procedures". I need to be advised as to what is envisaged by this phrase. It sounds to me as .if FAO might be expected to assume a policeman's role. Is this the case? I can see very strange situations arising with disagreements between the governments, if they are to verify these things.
My other request for clarification is with respect to paragraph 6. If there is the consideration of gender, I need it to be clarified. I wonder whether this will have an impact on regional or geographic representation within the Organization, given that some regions and countries have more trained manpower than others.
Ms Joan DUDIK-GAYOSO (United States of America): As we said in our statement on the Programme of Action for Agrarian Reform and Rural Development, we can support this resolution if it is carried out within existing resources. So my delegation would like to see an addition to paragraph 4 which indicates that the work described there would be carried out within existing resources. I might add that we would imagine that if FAO is doing its existing work without doing this sort of thing, maybe there are some faults in what they are doing.
CHAIRMAN: Are there any other views? The proposals before us are first, Appendix A, paragraph 4, whether "verification and" can be omitted. Secondly, at the end of paragragh 4 we should add a suitable clause qualifying that these functions are to be carried out within the existing resources.
Ms Susan ULBAEK (Denmark): The delegate of Swaziland asked why the word "verification" is there. I do not think he really wanted to delete the word, but perhaps I am mistaken. The reason for "verification" is to enable Member States, not FAO, to see what FAO is doing. Of course, if we are doing verification and monitoring, it is a kind of evaluation. FAO will be better able to learn from its experiences in the future.
Concerning regional division of staff members, that was not in the proposal. Does the delegate want it inserted or was he just asking about it? I would like to associate myself with the views of the delegate of the United States because the Nordic countries find that the integration of women is an essential issue which should be part of whatever FAO is doing. The discussion here yesterday showed that many countries share our view. This implies that funding of the Action Plan should be financed within the Regular Programme. If we accept any kind of extra-budgetary financing of something like that, it is the same as agreeing to the issue of the integration of women as some kind of appendix to FAO's activities. That is certainly not the intention of the resolution.
Yiadom K. ATTA-KONADU (Ghana): I find a great deal of substance in the US position that whatever has been said in paragraph 4 should be dealt within the existing resources. However, having said that, I find it difficult to associate this with paragraph 6, which seems to be indicating that FAO should take steps to make sure that positions are created for women. If new positions are going to be created, that implies that additional resources should be forthcoming unless, as I am told, some men will be laid off and women take their jobs. This is not precisely what we have in mind. There-fore, much as I support the US position, I find it difficult to correlate that with paragraph 6.
CHAIRMAN: As far as I understand paragraph 6, it does not envisage an increase in the number of positions per se. It only envisages that among the existing positions representation for women, particularly at the professional level, both at Headquarters and at the field level, would be in accordance with the recommendations outlined in the Forward-Looking Strategies. From this it would follow that paragraph 6 by itself does not have any specific financial implications, whereas in relation to paragraph 4 that apprehension is possibly valid.
Ms Joan DUDIK-GAYOSO (United States of America): I read paragraph 6 Mr Chairman, the way you did. But if it is necessary to clarify the matter, to allay the concern of the delegate of Ghana, under paragraph 6 we could insert the word "existing" so that the second line would read "within the existing FAO staff". Women have waited a long time for equality in hiring, they are not requesting that any men be fired so that women be employed.
Chairman: Are there any other views? We have three proposals: First, on the point raised by the delegate of Swaziland on "verification" in paragraph 4, the clarification is that "verification" relates not to the work being done by the member countries or any policing action, as feared by the delegate, but verification of the work being done with FAO itself.
Secondly, at the end of paragraph 4 we should add a phrase which would ensure that these activities would be within the framework of the existing budgetary allocations. In paragraph 6, line 2, after the words "employed within the" we should add the word "existing" and then read on, "FAO staff". Would these proposals meet with general approval so that we can take this resolution as approved and go to the resolution in Appendix B? I take it that the sense of the house is that we approve this resolution in its modified form. If there is any dissent could I hear it? Then this resolution is approved.
Are there any viewpoints on the resolution in Appendix B, or shall we pass the resolution as it is?
Ms Joan DUDIK-GAYOSO (United States of America): I would assume that this resolution also has budgetary implications and so I think we would need to find a place in which to insert that concern about existing resources within the operative paragraph. Having decided on the previous resolution, it would seem to me at least a valid point to note or call attention to that resolution as well in the preamble. So I would propose those two changes, otherwise I think things will not be kept consistent and in tandem.
CHAIRMAN: May I point out that the Resolutions Committee in its Sixth Report has mentioned financial implications only in relation to Appendix A and not Appendix B?
Ms Joan DUDIK-GAYOSO (United States of America): I could make several points on this since I attended that Resolutions Committee meeting, but I should hate to usurp the position of the Chairman of that Committee.
It is my understanding that the discussion of the financial implications of the Nordic resolution was not - I repeat not - part of the formal discussion of the Nordic resolution: number one. Number two: for reasons known to the Committee the discussion of the resolution proposed by Venezuela which was available only in an informal way in one language, was extremely cursory and many of us had great difficulty in understanding it. We did not want to hold up the resolution, because we knew both of them should be considered here, to have a detailed discussion. So I am not sure that we can make too much of the point that what is on the cover of C 87/LIM/39 should preclude the addition of such a point in the resolution.
Rafael MORENO ROJAS (Subdirector General a.i., Departamento de Política Económica y Social): La Secretaría se había abstenido de participar en esta discusión dada la expresión de voluntades que había sido recogida en el debate que aquí se está llevando a efecto. Pero quisiera ofrecer algunos puntos adicionales a los que aquí se han entregado respecto de cuáles serían las implicaciones de las dos resoluciones. Obviamente, tal como está indicado en el informe del Comité de Resoluciones, la resolución del Apéndice a) tiene en dos párrafos una implicancia desde el punto de vista finan-ciero. El párrafo cuarto, como ha sido sugerido, se ha agregado dentro de los recursos.
Pero quiero destacar que el párrafo que tiene un costo realmente muy elevado dependiendo del nivel de actividad que se desea llevar, es el párrafo cinco de la resolución, Apéndice a). Cualquier programa de capacitación que involucre y entrene, al menos, a 1 500 ó 2 000 funcionarios de la FAO, cualquiera que sea el plazo en que ese entrenamiento se realice, obviamente eso cuesta recursos materiales desde el punto de vista de reuniones, desde el punto de vista de los costos que suponen sus pasajes y otros elementos que están anexos.
Obviamente nosotros creemos entender el espíritu con el que esto se ha formulado, pero este punto número 5 ha tenido una implicación, desde el punto de vista de recursos, que al menos en el programa de presupuesto del año 1988/89 no estaba contemplada, como es una acción de capacitación de esta naturaleza.
Por supuesto, si la Comisión y la Conferencia lo resolviesen, podría tener una análisis distinto, pero el impacto desde el punto de vista financiero, es éste.
Volviendo ahora o tomando el Apéndice b), obviamente la realización de una reunión, aunque sea a nivel de expertos y no obstante que el Comité de Resoluciones explícitamente no lo hubiese señalado, también involucra un costo.
A este respecto, quiero señalar que en el curso del debate del día de ayer, se ha formulado, incluso por una delegación que está aquí presente, la proposición de financiar una reunión análoga a la que aquí está presentada. No estoy. yo en condiciones de decir si esto ha sido hecho teniendo en cuenta o no lo que aquí está formulado, pero contestando a la pregunta suya, Sr. Presidente, y haciendo abstracción del debate que se ha resuelto en el día de ayer y lo que está en el Verbatim, obviamente el párrafo número uno de la Resolución del Apéndice b) involucra un costo; una reunión de expertos no se hace sin recursos. En consecuencia, la Casa también debe avocarse a analizar ese mismo tema.
CHAIRMAN: The point that has been made is that Appendix B also has financial implications, so the point made by the delegate of the United States about the cost implications being referred to in the resolution as we did in the case of Appendix A is valid.
Ms Joan DUDIK-GAYOSO (United States of America): Other United Nations bodies have been asked to do this kind of plan of action. This is essential to the adequacy of FAO's programmes; it is not extra.
I am tempted to ask the Secretariat what kinds of programmes they will continue to have of this sort of training is not undertaken. This is not something extra; this is part of what the programme should be doing. I know that this is going.to cost money, but it seems that it might be wiser to do less better than more less well, as has been done until now. I think the argument is being made that this training is necessary to improve programmes and projects.
Ismael DIAZ YUBERO (España): Evidentemente, podemos hacer tantas contracciones como queramos, pero va a ser difícil que Limitemos la posibilidad de incrementar un gasto si encargamos cosas a la FAO; es decir, si la FAO tiene que hacer una reunión, tiene que hacer unas reuniones de capacitación, una reunión de expertos, etc... para no entrar en todos los puntos en general, muchos de estos puntos cuestan dinero, Sr. Presidente.
Es evidente que cuesta dinero. Toda reunión de expertos tiene un costo, como es claro, y como todos lo sabemos y como todos estamos acostumbrados a asistir a muchas reuniones, y todas cuestan dinero. El problema es que creo que cuando aceptamos esa Resolución es siendo conscientes de que una parte del dinero de la FAO se tendrá que dedicar a estas funciones. Quizás hay un problema de aprobación de Presupuesto para el año próximo, para el bienio siguiente, que, es inmediata la aprobación puesto que seguramente será mañana o en los próximos días, aunque estas cosas no se contemplan, pero no se contemplan específicamente.
Sin embargo, creo que de una forma un poco abstracta, en muchos o algunos de los capítulos podrían entrar los gastos correspondientes a esto. Evidentemente, eso va dentro de la política de apretarse el cinturón por parte de FAO. Pero yo creo que no sería necesario hacer ninguna llamada a que no se va a incrementar el presupuesto o los recursos presupuestarios ordinarios disponibles, etc. Creo que será necesario dentro del presupuesto aprobado, si es posible, en el que se apruebe del próximo bienio, y si no fuera posible, para el siguiente, preparar los fondos necesarios para poder llevar a efecto estas dos Resoluciones. En el momento en que se hayan aprobado, empezará a obligar a todos, a todos incluida lógicamente la FAO.
No creo que debamos entrar, en estos momentos, en la necesidad de tener los dólares o las liras necesarias ya individualizadas sino en la aprobación, y con las disponibilidades que pueda tener la FAO, ir tomando las medidas necesarias para ir cumpliendo lo que esta resolución obliga, a partir del momento de su aprobación.
Yiadom K. ATTA-KONADU (Ghana): Could we have some explanation of the words "production technology" at the end of the paragraph beginning "Reaffirming"? I should like to know what those words refer to. When I have heard the answer I may make further comments.
Yan HEIDSMA (Netherlands): I just wanted to react to what Dr Moreno said, and also I should like to touch upon one or two other things which have been stated by delegations here.
Having read the two resolutions and having studied the resolution put forward by Venezuela before dealing with it in the Committee here, my delegation came to the conclusion that these two resolutions would have to be read in conjunction with each other, and that basically what is stated in paragraph 4 in Appendix A, which deals with the plan of action - the drawing up of this plan of action could be assisted by the activity foreseen in paragraph 1 of the resolution in Appendix B which talks about the meeting of experts.
With regard to the training programme in paragraph 5 of the first resolution, we very much agree with what has been said by the United States and by Spain. My delegation has always seen this as an ongoing activity which ought to be reinforced, perhaps, over the next biennium, but we do not think that this would necessarily lead to an increase in the overall budget. We could envisage, though, that it might lead to some rearrangement of activities within the existing budget line or budget chapter under which these activities would have to be carried out.
As far as the meeting of experts is concerned, my delegation announced a few days ago that we would be prepared to support a meeting of experts of this kind, and when I read the text I come very much to the conclusion that this is indeed the sort of meeting we had in mind. However, I did not say, as Dr Moreno seemed to imply, that the Netherlands would finance this meeting in toto. That is not the case. We are prepared to contribute to the meeting, and we can discuss at some later stage to what extent that would be possible. That is all I wanted to say in this connection.
Ms Bárbara MARTIN (Canada): At this stage I should simply like to associate the Canadian delegation with the remarks made by the United States, Spain and the Netherlands. We are firmly of the conviction that this Conference is a priority-setting exercise. The Programme of Work and Budget has not yet been adopted. This is our opportunity to indicate that women in development is clearly a priority with all delegations represented here. Therefore, it is simply a matter of reallocation within the budget and not a matter of extra-budgetary resources.
CHAIRMAN: We now have three issues to deal with on Appendix B.
The suggestion is that in paragraph 2 of Appendix B beginning "Recalling" we should also refer to the earlier resolution at Appendix A so that that also comes into the recalling process.
At the penultimate paragraph on this page starting with "Reaffirming" the delegate of Ghana wanted clarification as to what is meant by "production technology".
Then on page B2, the suggestion is to enter a caveat suggesting that this also should be within the budgetary allocations with no extra expenditure.
May I request a clarification of the two words "production technology"?
Sra. Mercedes FERMIN GOMEZ (Venezuela): Quiero explicarle a la delegación de Ghana que esta parte no corresponde a la parte resolutiva de la Resolución. Estamos hablando de las cosas, de las actividades que ya la FAO tiene y de los propósitos que ya la FAO tiene, y que están expresados en su documento C 28/LIM/16 en donde habla- de los programas que está llevando adelante en capacitación para que la mujer tenga la garantía de fácil acceso a la tecnología en los aspectos pertinentes a la actividad productiva. Es decir, que esta mujer del medio rural que actualmente no puede ser eficiente porque ella no ha sido capacitada para ello, ya la FAO se está ocupando de este aspecto, y así lo demuestra en su documento que ha sido presentado, que espero que la delegación de Ghana pueda leerlo.
Allí se explica cómo la FAO ha tenido sus diferentes actividades y programas de capacitación con este propósito. Eso es lo que nosotros estamos apoyando, y con el propósito de apoyar esto es que precisamente vamos a pedir esa reunión de expertos. Y también de paso, quiero explicar a quienes están confundiendo la proposición de esta Resolución con el Plan de Acción, que no es lo mismo.
Estamos hablando de una reunión de expertos que tendría por finalidad estudiar todo el material y las actividades que la FAO está llevando a cabo en relación con la mujer, para que estudiando eso, pudiera organizarse, sugerirse o desembocar para el futuro en la posibilidad de dedicar un órgano especial para ello. Y no como ahora se hace en que en cada Comisión de la FAO hay una atención a la mujer.
Yo creo que la mujer necesita programas específicos en cuanto a la posibilidad de que sea integrada al desarrollo rural. No es cuestión de un cursito hoy, otro acá y otro allá en un plan de acción que se diluye sino en un proceso continuado orgánico; y por ello, pienso yo que es conveniente tener una reunión de expertos que lo estudie, lo analice en toda su extensión el panorama de actividades de la FAO.
Nosotros sí creemos que la mujer merece que la FAO le preste una atención puesto que la industria y la agroindustria, y las actividades de las grandes corporaciones y de todos los que se dedican a la explotación de la agricultura, tienen necesidad de la mano de obra de la mujer, que dicho sea de paso, está tratada en condiciones inferiores porque no la tratan como trabajador calificado; en la mayoría de las industrias y en la mayoría de las actividades de trabajo en el campo, la mujer está considerada en muchos casos igual que los niños porque no se les dá en salarios ni en categorías la misma estimación que al hombre.
Esta es una reivindicación que hasta ahora la FAO ha venido satisfaciendo mediante la capacitación de la mujer para que ella pueda rendir su actividad en iguales condiciones que el hombre. Y por eso es por lo que yo hago referencia aquí, reiterando lo que la FAO hace en los cursos de capacitación dando a la mujer acceso a la tecnología para que no lo haga de una manera empírica, sino que pueda ser un trabajador más eficiente. Eso es lo que significa el acceso a la tecnología en los aspectos pertinentes a la actividad productiva.
Mme Anna Teresa FRITTELLIANNIBALDI (Italie): Madame la déléguée du Venezuela a répondu à une grande partie des questions pour lesquelles j'avais demandé la parole. Moi aussi, je me demandais s'il était vraiment nécessaire de prévoir une résolution à part, c'est-à-dire deux résolutions qui ont pour objet le même objet mais on ne peut pas parler de femme-objet! Serait-il possible de réunir les deux textes pour avoir quelque chose de complet?
Madame l'honorable déléguée du Venezuela a expliqué qu'elle voudrait avoir quelque chose de très particulier en ce qui concerne le problème de la femme dans le développement rural, quelqu'un qui peut voir toute chose avec l'expérience et la compétence nécessaires pourrait donner des conseils sur l'ensemble de la situation.
Je suis tout à fait d'accord sur la nécessité d'envisager une réunion d'experts mais quand même je continue de me demander s'il ne serait pas possible du suggérer au Secrétariat d'envisager une seule résolution sur la femme, qui prévoit le rôle de la femme dans le développement, en particulier, étant donné que nous sommes à la FAO, le rôle de la femme dans le développement rural et de prévoir dans les plans d'action du Directeur général la possibilité d'envisager une réunion d'experts le cas échéant qui examine, qui suggère toutes les solutions qui pourraient être nécessaires pour résoudre ces problèmes qui, naturellement peuvent ressortir du Programme ordinaire de la FAO. Je suis tout à fait d'accord qu'une des premières priorités de la FAO devrait être pour la femme, non pas dans les textes, non pas dans les documents mais dans les faits. Mais si quelqu'un, quelque part, veut contribuer ou aider la FAO pour un sujet si important que celui de la femme, je pense qu'on ne devrait pas l'en empêcher.
CHAIRMAN: We have indeed gone into this question earlier as to whether we should have one or two resolutions. The considered view of the house is that we should have two resolutions. We have passed the resolution in Appendix A and we are now on Appendix B. I suggest that we finalize this resolution.
Ms Susan ULBAEK (Denmark): I would like to say that I support convening a meeting as suggested by Venezuela. However, I have one small problem with the fourth preambular paragraph. As I read it, it implies that FAO is already now dealing with all aspects of women effectively and that we do not need a meeting nor an action plan. Perhaps we could change the fourth preambular paragraph. On the other hand, perhaps 1 am not reading it correctly.
CHAIRMAN: Paragraph 4 says that FAO effectively encourages; : it does not say that FAO succeeds.
Laughter
Rires
Risas
In so far as production technology is concerned, may I ask the delegate from Ghana not to press the point further and to leave the last clause intact?
Yiadom K. ATTA-KONADU (Ghana): I have listened attentively to the explanation, but I still have a feeling that the whole paragraph seems to be a little bit limiting. In agriculture when we talk about production technology it seems to mean production input such as new seeds, fertilizers, etc. so that by mentioning production it seems we are limiting ourselves to production activities. In west Africa, for instance, marketing activity, distribution, processing take up a large portion of the activities engaged in by women. That is the reason why I find this terminology a little bit limiting unless the production activities include technology that will create marketing services, etc.
Ms Joan DUDIK-GAYOSO (United States of America): May I suggest a solution to the problem of paragraph 4? Maybe we could simply drop the word "effectively", because I think you are right that maybe FAO does not succeed, in which case it has not been effective, although it may have tried. Perhaps the problems could be solved by dropping the word "effectively".
Almir F. DE SÁ BARBUDA (Brazil): I want to give our support to what has just been said by the delegate from Denmark. I do believe that both Venezuela, the Nordic countries and all of the others that support one or the other of the resolutions have closed positions and the best solution at this moment would be for the Danish and Venezuelandelegates to get together and discuss it and later we could come back to this resolution.
CHAIRMAN: 1 think we have gone into this aspect. May I request the delegates not to reopen it so that we can proceed with our agenda. There are three propositions. Do I take it from the delegate of Venezuela that she has no objection to referring in paragraph 2 to the earlier resolution that has been passed in Appendix A?
Sra. Mercedes FERMIN-GOMEZ (Venezuela): Señor Presidente, entiendo que nosotros ya hemos aprobado la primera resolución que consideramos, y estamos discutiendo ahora la otra resolución. Con la excusa del señor delegado del Brasil no me explico porqué ahora tenemos que volver atrás; si nosotros ya aprobamos una resolución y la Asamblea había decidido que se aprobaran las dos, no sé porqué ahora vamos a regresar al punto de partida; por esa razón yo insisto en que si me piden aclarar.. .
CHAIRMAN: May I clarify the position. The delegate from the United States has suggested that in paragraph 2 where we are recalling resolutions 2/66, 10/75, 14/77 and 12/85 a reference could possibly be made to the earlier resolution also in paragraph 2. That is the suggestion being made. We are not going back to Appendix A.
Sra. Mercedes FERMIN-GOMEZ (Venezuela): Yo no había escuchado que la delegación de los Estados Unidos de América quisiera incorporar aquí, en este segundo párrafo, la resolución de Dinamarca; si ellos quieren poner allí la resolución de Dinamarca, yo no tengo inconveniente, pero eso no va a influir en esa resolución porque eso sería completamente diferente. El propósito de esta resolución, señor Presidente, tal como está presentada, es dar énfasis a una parte resolutiva sólo para la creación de una reunión de expertos, de manera que no se diluya con todas las otras peticiones que hace la resolución de Dinamarca, que yo respeto, y con la que estoy de acuerdo, pero yo considero que no hay objeción para que se aprueben las dos, porque no tenemos porqué mezclar una cosa con otra, y si se había decidido ya aprobar la resolución de Dinamarca, creo que se debería discutir y aprobar la de Venezuela como está ya en proceso, sin darle muchas vueltas.
Ismael DIAZ YUBERO (España): Yo creo que son dos cosas, las que se están tratando, completamente distintas. Hemos tomado ya una decisión y yo creo absolutamente que no sería bueno mezclar un tema con otro.
Evidentemente, se trata de una parte expositiva, pero, repito, es expositiva y es muy importante; es decir, la parte expositiva de una resolución no es parte sustantiva, y quizá en la parte expositiva se podría decir también o hacer una referencia a que existe otra resolución, igual que se habla de que hay ya otra resolución sobre la integración de la mujer, u otras resoluciones a las que se hace aquí referencia. Pero creo que eso no tiene importancia, como creo que tampoco tiene mucha importancia que se quite o se ponga la palabra "eficiente" en el cuarto considerando, en el cuarto párrafo; que se discuta el fácil acceso a la tecnología o que se discutan cualquiera de los aspectos que están antes del último párrafo porque, señor Presidente, todo esto no tiene más validez que como información. Realmente, de lo que se trata en esta resolución - y es un tema completamente distinto a lo que hemos aprobado anteriormente, y completamente distinto a todos los demás aspectos que también hemos tratado anteriormente es de que se convoque una reunión de expertos para tratar un tema concreto sobre la integración de la mujer en la agricultura. Quizás algunas veces caemos en algunas concepciones un poco machistas y algunas veces hasta me he podido casi sonrojar cuando se ha querido echar una mano al papel de la mujer y se ha dicho que ya es hora de que en los despachos haya menos bigotes y más "minigonnas". Yo, verdaderamente, me avergüenzo de oír estas cosas; creo que no se debería decir; creo que es un tema muy serio el que estamos discutiendo, y lo único que pide esta resolución es que nos atengamos a su último párrafo en el que solicita la convocatoria de una reunión de expertos para tratar, precisamente, estos temas.
Mme Anna Teresa FRITTELLI-ANNIBALDI (Italie): La proposition de la déléguée des Etats-Unis de rappeler les résolutions déjà approuvées dans l'annexe B me satisferait dans le doute que j'avais d'une liaison entre les deux résolutions qui ont été prises par la même Conférence, sur les mêmes sujets qui ne sont pas liés entre eux.
CHAIRMAN: We now have to deal with four paragraphs in Appendix B. In paragraph 2 one suggestion is that while we are "recalling" we will make a reference to the Resolution in Appendix A which has just now been adopted. The second suggestion is that no such reference be made. Which do we accept?
In view of the strong views expressed by the Venezuelan delegate, may I suggest to the Commission that we leave the wording as it is, without modification?
Ms. Joan DUDIK-GAYOSO (United States of America): I am sorry, I do not like to delay the proceedings, but I think this Commission would look very foolish if we did not have one resolution refer to the other. I also think this Commission would look even more foolish if we had a resolution saying that we consider that FAO has effectively encouraged its departments and divisions to take women's problems into consideration.
CHAIRMAN: May I interrupt you? We shall be coming to paragraph 4 separately.
Sra. Mercedes FERMIN-GOMEZ (Venezuela): Señor Presidente, excúseme pero por más fuerte que yo haya hablado, porque mi voz es así y además tengo micrófono, no he dicho que me oponga a que se haga mención aquí a la resolución que se acaba de aprobar, porque aunque se haya aprobado hace cinco minutos ya está aprobada, y entonces ya no hay más que agregar aquí. Además de las resoluciones 2/66, 10/75, la resolución 17/77, titulada "Integración de la Mujer en el Desarrollo Rural", la 2/85, titulada "La Mujer en el Medio Rural", que es, por cierto, una resolución de Venezuela, aprobada en la Conferencia pasada, hay que agregar aquí la de Dinamarca que ya ha sido aprobada. No hay problema en esto y nosotros estamos de acuerdo con ello.
CHAIRMAN: There is no issue then on paragraph 2. We will go to paragraph 4. The suggestion is in line 2 after "development" to delete the word "effectively". Does this meet with general approval?
All right, we come to the last but one paragraph on this page. There are three suggestions: one is to leave the paragraph as it is, "... in order that they may be assured of easy access to production technology". The second alternative is that we delete this particular clause, and leave the paragraph after "programmes". The third suggestion is that if we are keeping this we also add "as well as processing and marketing improvements". Which of the three alternatives should we adopt? May I suggest that we leave it as it is with no changes? Does that meet with general approval? Is there any dissent?
We will take it then that the penultimate paragraph is left as it is on page Bl.
We now go to page B2, the operative paragraph. Here the suggestion has been made that we should qualify this in relation to budgetary allocations, as we did in the case of Appendix A. Does that meet with general approval? Is there any dissent? Then we approve this paragraph with this particular addition.
That means that we have completed the approval of Resolution Appendix A and Appendix B. This also means that we have effectively completed our deliberations on agenda Item 9.
The delegations of Cape Verde and Angola have asked for their statements under Item 9 on the World Conference on Agrarian Reform and Rural Development to be included in the verbatim record. I hear no objection and that will be done.
Mme Cristina Isabel DUARTE (Cap-Vert): La délégation du Cap-Vert aimerait souligner quelques aspects, notamment la Réforme agraire, son rôle et sa fonction dans le développement rural.
Les études réalisées dans le domaine de l'histoire agraire africaine ont déjà démontré que l'actuelle structure agraire constitue un obstacle au développement rural. Ce que l'histoire nous montre c'est que la campagne, tout au long de plusieurs décennies, finance un développement urbain, quelquefois destructurant et que la détérioration des termes de l'échange interne, c'est-à-dire entre le monde rural et le monde urbain, est tout simplement un des mécanismes de financement du développement urbain en extorquant les excédents agricoles. C'est dans ce contexte que la disparité des prix est avant tout un mécanisme de transfert de ressources basé sur une structure agraire obsolète.
En concevant la Réforme agraire comme ensemble de mesures qui visent avant tout à modifier cette situation! en élargissant la base sociale de la propriété, il reste donc évident que l'un des aspects cruciaux de ce processus relève d'une effective capacité financière de la population rurale, vue qu'elle constitue l'autre visage de la décentralisation des décisions soutenues par certains.
D'autre part, la réforme agraire en tant que telle implique nécessairement un changement des vecteurs structurels déterminés.
Permettez-mot très brièvement de parler de la courte expérience du Cap-Vert dans ce domaine.
La situation agraire du Cap-Vert est caractérisée par un pourcentage élevé d'exploitation indirecte de la terre, essentiellement métayage et fermage. 40 pour cent des exploitants ne possèdent pas la surface minimale de terre.
En 1982, a été publiée la Loi de Base de Réforme agraire dont l'objectif principal est à court terme le changement de la structure agraire et des relations de production dans les zones rurales passant d'une situation semi-féodale, dans plusieurs zones du pays, à l'usufruit complet de la terre par les paysans ("posse útil").
La courte expérience déjà accumulée nous dit que la concession de l'usufruit "util" de terre au paysan en soi n'élimine pas les relations structurelles de dépendance. Ceci parce que ces mêmes rapports de dépendance s'établissent non seulement autour du milieu de production - la terre - mais également autour des autres moyens de production motopompes, puits, forages, etc.
C'est dans ce contexte qu'un usufruit utile effectif de développement rural de la part des paysans passe non seulement par un usufruit "utile" de la terre mais aussi par des possibilités financières à travers une mise en valeur des termes de l'échange interne du crédit et par un usufruit "utile" de connaissance.
En ce qui concerne l'expérience cap-verdienne, j'aimerais vous parler des coûts financiers de la Réforme agraire. .'Dans notre pays, ce processus est soumis au principe politique de l'Unité Nationale et de la stabilité politique, en l'absence desquelles- le développement devient presque impossible. Ceci implique qu'une partie des terres soit acquise par l'Etat et distribuée ultérieurement en usufruit "utile". Par ailleurs, ceci nous a amenés à identifier un projet dans le cadre du Deuxième Plan National de Développement intitulé "Fonds de la Réforme agraire" dont le financement est refusé par les donateurs, ceux-là mêmes qui dans les Conférences mondiales défendent la mise en service de la Réforme agraire et la stabilité politique comme conditions du développement rural.
Toute cette problématique nous conduit à réfléchir sur le rythme de mise en place du processus de la Réforme agraire et, par conséquent, au rythme qui devra être celui du système de suivi de ce même processus. Le processus de la Réforme agraire est en soi un processus lent et il en va donc de même pour celui du développement rural. C'est dans ce cadre que la délégation du Cap-Vert comprend la proposition de changement de périodicité pour la publication du rapport de suivi.
En ce qui concerne cet aspect, nous pensons qu'oru ne devrait, pas réduire la périodicité des "outputs" du système de suivi à la périodicité d'un rapport, étant donné qu'il constitue l'un des aspects particuliers de ce même système.
Pour terminer, la délégation cap-verdienne aimerait se référer très brièvement à l'intégration de la femme dans le développement rural. La réalité nous montre que la femme est intégrée dans le monde rural mais pas dans le développement rural. La marginalisation de la femme dans le processus de développement n'est pas purement une discrimination sexuelle, elle est avant tout une discrimination sociale dans sa variante sexuelle. Par conséquent, son intégration constitue l'un des aspects de l'effort de mise en valeur des petits paysans.
C'est dans ce cadre que toutes les mesures préconisées et visant à toucher ce groupe du monde rural devraient envisager de préférence la composante féminine afin d'atteindre l'objectif Intégration de la femme dans le Développement Rural. Le rythme de mise en place des mesures citées détermine en partie le rythme de matérialisation de cet objectif. 1/
Mme Josefa COELHO DA CRUZ (Angola): En premier lieu, nous voulons profiter de cette occasion pour féliciter le Secrétariat pour la qualité du document qui nous est soumis pour analyse.
Nous apprécions l'évaluation qui est faite de la situation de l'évolution des politiques nationales et internationales ainsi que le progrès réalisé afin d'atteindre les objectifs préconisés par la CMRADR.
Il est regrettable de constater qu'en Afrique le nombre de personnes sous-alimentées a augmenté sensiblement malgré les efforts déployés pour garantir la sécurité alimentaire et la nutrition.
Ceci est dû, Monsieur le Président, à plusieurs facteurs, indépendamment des calamités naturelles.
Les pays de l'Afrique australe vivent une instabilité permanente suite à la politique déstabili-satrice du régime d'Apartheid de l'Afrique du Sud qui constitue un grand handicap pour le dévelop-pement agricole et la sécurité alimentaire des pays de la ligne de FRONT.
Concernant le système de vulgarisation agricole et de formation, nous ne pouvons que manifester notre satisfaction pour les progrès accomplis à un certain rythme qui répond aux besoins des petits cultivateurs.
Le rôle joué par la femme dans le développement rural est fondamental, car il constitue un élément de base.
Sur ce point, nous appuyons les programmes et les moyens mis à la disposition par la FAO pour l'amélioration des conditions de vie de la femme dans les zones rurales, comme il est préconisé dans une des résolutions arrêtées à la Conférence pour la Décennie de la Femme tenue à Nairobi, en 1985, pour l'exécution des stratégies prospectives d'action de Nairobi,
Nous encourageons aussi les gouvernements à déployer les efforts en vue d'intégrer la femme dans tous les domaines du développement car il existe encore dans plusieurs parties du monde des discriminations envers la femme.
Nous appuyons également le chapitre IV, paragraphe 3, car l'accès à la terre, à la coopération et aux crédits ne doit pas constituer un obstacle.
Dans mon pays, une grande partie de la production agricole est produite par la femme paysanne. Dans le passé, son accession à l'éducation était presque impossible; elle était liée au ménage et à la petite agriculture.
Après l'indépendance, fut promulguée une loi qui reconnaissait l'égalité de tous, indépendamment de son sexe, sa race, sa religion ou son origine sociale.
L'OMA, Organisation de la femme angolaise, est une institution chargée dans mon pays de la promotion de la femme; son objectif principal est l'encadrement de toutes les femmes angolaises quelles que soient leurs convictions politiques et religieuses pour compléter leur émancipation.
Les activités dans les zones rurales sont les suivantes: stimuler la participation des femmes dans les coopératives et dans les associations de paysans; améliorer le niveau de l'éducation sanitaire; appuyer le développement de la force de production à la campagne par l'application des nouvelles formes d'organisation.
L'accès des pays en développement aux marchés des pays développés est handicapé par le protectionnisme.
Sur ce point, soulignons la nécessité de renforcer les négociations commerciales multilatérales du GATT entamées en Uruguay en 1986, dont le but est la libéralisation complète du commerce des produits tropicaux.
La situation que nous venons de décrire ci-dessus n'a pas évolué suite à la carence du personnel qualifié et aux difficultés dues aux transports et aux moyens de communication.
La production agricole a considérablement baissé dans notre pays et, de pays exportateur, il est actuellement devenu un pays importateur pour la satisfaction des besoins de sa population.
Par conséquent, nous observons maintenant une tendance à la récession de quelques produits de base tels que les céréales, les oléagineux, les fruits, les légumes, le coton et les légumineuses; et aussi une croissance sensible de la production des tubercules et du café.
Les indicateurs de commercialisation nous permettent de constater qu'il y a eu une croissance évidente dans la production en 1987.
Ceci est le résultat de l'utilisation des semences améliorées et des fertilisants.
Ces produits sont fournis par l'Etat dans le cadre de ses fonctions de prestataire de service qui commencent à avoir une incidence sur les secteurs étatiques.
Par conséquent, il s'est avéré qu'une amélioration de la distribution des moyens de production, en particulier aux entreprises familiales, permettrait une augmentation des revenus.
Quant aux conditions de vie de la population rurale, il existe une loi qui détermine que la terre est la propriété exclusive de l'Etat et appartient à celui qui l'occupe en la travaillant.
Pour le développement rural de la République Populaire Angolaise, celle-ci s'est assignée comme objectif principal de créer des coopératives et de regrouper les paysans isolés en associations afin de faciliter l'assistance technico-matérielle qui permettra d'accroître la production et la productivité 1/.
CHAIRMAN: May I now suggest that as it is possible that the voting may take place in the Plenary tomorrow and so that we lose as little time as possible, might I suggest that the paper on pesticides could be introduced for discussion?
N.MUKUTU (Zambia): In view of the fact that our Commission is well ahead on time and with regard to the need to give the Drafting Committee sometime to finish its work today, my delegation proposed that this Commission should adjourn discussion of the item until tomorrow morning. My delegation, is aware that many delegates want to contribute to the debate on this item. However, due to the smallness of some of the delegations who are now busy working in Commission II, we find it preferable that the Commission resume the meeting tomorrow.
Mr Chairman, with your permission, I beg to move.
Horacio CARANDANG (Philippines): Mr Chairman, I should like to support the motion put forward by the delegate of Zambia. I think the reasons he put forward are quite valid. It is now late in the afternoon. Many of the delegations have worked late into the night, especially those who are working on the Drafting Committee and the room is half empty. Many delegations wish to contribute to the discussion on this item and I would beg your indulgence, Mr. Chairman, if the motion of Zambia could be followed. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN: May I take it that the sense of the house is that we adjourn now and meet again at 9.30 tomorrow morning?
P.N. BAIGENT (New Zealand): I would support the motion, but I would also add the rider that I do not see why this Commission should have to hold over its work tomorrow while the vote is held in Plenary. That really concerns the work of Commission II and if the work was to be held up in any Commission, it should be that one.
I am fully in favour of breaking now because I think we should. We are up with our work, but we should not get behind tomorrow because of that vote.
CHAIRMAN: The Commission stands adjourned until tomorrow morning at 9.30.
The meeting rose at 18.25 hours
La séance est levée à 18 h 25
Se levanta la sesión a las 18.25 horas
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1/ Texte reçu avec demande d'insertion au procès- verbal.
1/ Texte reçu avec demande d'insertion au procès-verbal.
