LEGAL COUNSEL: The documents for this item, which are for information, are documents C 87/10 and C 87/10-Sup.l, in which the Director-General reports in accordance with Rule XXI of the General Rules of the Organization, on the status of the various multilateral treaties of which he is the depositary. He is also reporting, as usual, on the status of the Convention on the Privileges and Immunities of the Specialized Agencies as applied to FAO. The Commission will note that the parties to, and signatories of, the various treaties are now presented in alphabetical order rather than chronological order of participation as was done in the past. This slightly modified presentation, which follows the pattern of similar documents issued by the United Nations in respect of the treaties of which the Secretary-General is depositary will, I believe, make FAO's documents easier to consult.
I should also like to take this opportunity of informing the Commission of two instruments that have been deposited since document C 87/10 Supplement 1 was issued. First, Equatorial Guinea accepted, on 6 November 1987, the Protocol to the International Convention for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas. This protocol is referred to in paragraphs 73 to 76 of document C 87/10. Secondly, the Federal Republic of Germany accepted, on 12 November 1987, the amendments to articles VIII, XVII, XIX and XXI of the Convention on the Conservation of the Living Resources of the South East Atlantic. These amendments are referred to in paragraphs 81 to 83 of document C 87/10 and also on page 2 of the English text of document C 87/10 Sup. 1.
I think I should also draw the Commission's attention to the fact that on previous occasions the Conference has urged contracting parties that had not already done so, to accept the revised text of the International Plant Protection Convention. This is a particularly important text, and the revised version was approved by the Conference as far back as 1979. This text will only enter into force on the 30th day after acceptance by two-thirds of the contracting governments. As you will see from the documents before you, many contracting parties have accepted the revised text. Nevertheless, 16 more acceptances should be deposited before the revised text enters into force.
I think that is all I need to say on this item at this stage. If any delegate has any queries, I shall be happy to endeavour to answer them. Thank you, Mr Chairman.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. Are there any questions addressed to Legal Counsel? I do not see any, so I will open the discussion on this item. Who is going to be the first speaker? The distinguished delegate of Canada has the floor.
J. LYNCH (Canada): Mr Chairman, I do not think there will be many other speakers, although I thought that this morning in another Commission. But I think we should give tribute to the Legal Officers of the house for having kept very good records and having made a very informative production. I know for one that I learned a little bit here in terms of looking at the list of one convention that is of interest to my country, and I think that the Legal Staff is to be congratulated on the accuracy with which they maintain these lists. I think, Mr Chairman, if I could be so bold to suggest that if there are no other speakers - which I would doubt, because this is a very technical item - that we might pass to other agenda items.
LEGAL COUNSEL: This item comes to you after detailed consideration by the Council. In fact, it has been considered by the Council no less than three times. Document C 87/LIM/8 I think gives a clear summary of the background, but for those who are perhaps less well acquainted with this matter, let me put the question in a nutshell. At the elections for the Finance Committee which took place at the 89th Session of the Council in 1985, one region which had proposed a candidate was not elected. This raised the question whether every region that wished to be represented had a right to be represented. An examination of the texts by the CCLM and also by the Council revealed that the texts, as they had been drafted and adopted by the Conference, did leave a possibility for the results of the election procedures to be such that a region might not be elected when there were more candidates for the various seats than there were seats available. This led to consideration of the question whether the General Rules of the Organization should be amended or whether the representation of the various regions on the Finance Committee and the Programme Committee -because these two committees are similar in structure and in the method of election of their members - should be left to negotiations among the various governments. After considerable deliberation on the matter and certain divergences of opinion, some governments thought the rules should be 'changed; others preferred :that :'the matter be left to negotiations.
The CCLM was entrusted by the Council with the task of trying to find a solution which would bring about a consensus in the Council. The results were successful. The CCLM did find a proposal which, at the June session of the Council, met with a consensus. This solution, which is by way of being a compromise between the two previous theses, i.e., of amending the rules or leaving everything to negotiation, is to be found in a draft Conference resolution which you have before you on page 3 of the English text of document C 87/LIM/8. This compromise solution is to the effect that the Conference would decide on certain principles which it enjoins the Council to follow when the Council proceeds to the election of the members of the Programme Committee and the Finance Committee. These principles are contained in the three operative paragraphs of the draft resolution. I will not read them out because they are before you. The issue is thus to decide whether these principles, as contained in the draft resolution, are a suitable solution to the problem which arose in 1985 and whether they would ensure for the future that the regions that wished to be represented on both the committees, are, in fact, so represented. Thank you, Mr Chairman.
CHAIRMAN: I thank Mr Roche for his statement.
Elio PASCARELLI (Italy): At the outset I would like to offer my Government's and my personal congratulations to Your Excellency for the election to the Chairmanship of this Commission which has a special bearing on our relations with FAO. I would also add my personal feelings of friendship which are largely - I would say unanimously - shared in Italy, for the country that you represent. After this dutiful introduction, I would like to thank Dr Roche for his, as usual, synthetic and convincing exposition of the document that we have before us. It is an excellent document and it comes out of a long debate that he assisted and that came to a conclusion which was shared by the Italian representative in that committee.
Nevertheless - and this is why I took the floor - I do not think that this is the solution. Once again, we are facing the risk that one or two regions might not be represented, even if they so wish, because consultation was unsuccessful and, as you might know, the nominations for both the Programme and Finance Committees exceeded the number of posts available. There will be no block acceptance, so we will have a secret vote on it, and God knows, plus the urn - if there is a reader in the urn - what comes out. My fear is that once again at least one region will not be represented. It is not obligatory to follow, however, authoritative advice or recommendations of the Council. This is not the rule. I believe that this danger is there with us. I think that in his own words Mr Roche manifested the constant danger of non-representation. Because when the Conference decides to affirm the need for a just and equitable representation, etc., and to
underline and point to the essential element of such representation, then all regions who so wish are, in fact, represented on the Committee. How about if coming out of the urns we find out that one region is not represented? Who has the right to cancel, to annul the results of the democratic and secret vote unless we change the rules? I do not think that I am in contrast with the position represented by the delegate of Italy in that Committee if I say that we would like to make it clear enough so that the incident which occurred two years ago will not occur again. The lack of concertation and the secret vote leading to the absence of one important - extremely important -region of the world for the Finance Committee, especially for the Finance Committee - it is important in general, but for the Finance Committee especially because of the bearing of that region's contributions to the FAO.
Mr Chairman, you will forgive me; I am not very well accustomed and maybe did not learn many lessons from the 2\ years I served in this Organization as a Representative of Italy. I started my dialogue with Mr Roche precisely 2 years ago from another corner; I was on the left and now I am on the right, but it hasn't changed much.
I would submit for the consideration of the distinguished delegates present here tonight the need to work out another solution. Because of my short experience I was afraid of being too late, but consulting the General Rules of the Organization I see that I am still in time to ask my colleagues whether they are ready to sponsor with me, with Italy, a draft resolution that I have only informally passed over to you but that I am ready to table after, with your permission, a brief discussion of this item.
My draft resolution would prevent this danger by changing the rules of the election, but there would be absolutely no danger of a region being excluded if they want to be represented. Secondly, my proposal would take into consideration the reason why it occurred in the past. Mr Chairman, you are a European like the speaker from this bench. We are 29 countries. We have one seat. We had one seat for quite a number of years - Mr Roche would be able to tell us; I do not recall now, - when we started to limit the number of seats in the Finance Committee to 9 whereas the Programme Committee has 11. I can understand why the Committee on Legal and Constitutional Matters has only 7, but I really do not understand this difference between the Programme and Finance Committee. I do know the Council once expressed - and I read from para 2 of Document C 87/LIM/8 that we have before us - I quote from the last three lines in English and referring to the Council: "It also considered" - I was in that Council - "It also considered that such representation should not entail any increase in the number of members on either Committee". But again Mr Chairman, we notice this year that the excessive number of candidates and the lack of consultation has led both the first group of three regions and the other group of four regions to present more candidates than posts, and in the past it was exactly with the European candidates that the quarrel and the no consultation led for two consecutive elections to the secret vote. The countries involved in the last six years were my country and Greece. Last time two European countries were elected and North America was not there. This time we have two European countries, North America and South West Pacific, but nobody can guarantee that all of the regions would be represented.
I am pretty sure that it will not be the case, whereas if this draft resolution is taken into consideration I think that this risk will be provided for now and for the time ahead of us. The increase that we propose in that draft resolution is only by two, so that Europe could have two seats and an extra seat could be given also to the other group of regions, which would probably satisfy one of those countries that would be excluded because the seats are not enough. I think that the other group on this election has eight candidates against six seats, so two candidates must be sacrificed.
So to conclude, I ask you to kindly consider whether it would be reasonable to have some other opinions, and if you so decide, to come back to this when the circulation of the draft will be completed with the usual number of sponsors. I understand that one sponsor is enough but I think that this is an honest attempt of the representative of the host country to prevent this unpleasant, and I would say unusual and undesired lack of representation for one region that wishes to be on the Committee.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you distinguished delegate of Italy. I also want to thank you for your friendly words for my country and myself personally. Before giving the floor to the next speaker, if there are no reservations, I would like to ask Dr Roche if maybe he would have certain comments or certain remarks for the Conference on points of the statements which you have just heard.
LEGAL COUNSEL: Mr Chairman, this is a matter which is, shall we say, outside the bailiwick of the Secretariat. The question of how Member Nations wish to resolve this problem is entirely up to them. It is not something on which we can make any suggestions as members of the Secretariat. It is an eminently political matter and eminently suitable for negotiations by Member Nations themselves. If Member Nations wish to change the rules, that is up to them to decide. I do not think there is anything more I can say on that. Whether you wish to come back to this later is a matter also for the Commission to decide on: that is to say whether you would like to see the Italian proposal first and come back to the item, or whether to proceed with an exchange of views among yourselves now, in a preliminary fashion, and then come back to the item. This again is a matter I would rather leave in the hands of the Commission.
Adel Helmy EL-SARKI (Egypt) (original language Arabic): After having reviewed this document C 87/LIM/8 concerning the election of members of the Programme and Finance Committees, I would like to refer to what was said by the delegate of Egypt in the Council and also to his intervention during the Conference. We stressed the need to balance representation among developing and developed countries in terms of the members in these two Committees. The choice of members in the Programme Committee should be balanced, and certain experts in the Finance Committee should also be proposed or nominated by their countries. They should be experts in financial matters. I therefore support the draft resolution contained in this document which will allow a balance and a rotation in the membership in these two Committees.
I would like to thank our Legal Adviser for having very clearly expounded the contents of this document.
T.F.F. MALUZA (Zambia): Firstly, I would like to congratulate you Mr Chairman, on your election to the chair. I have no doubts that you will steer the deliberations of this Commission to a successful conclusion. My delegation believes in the principle of equitable and geographical representation. We strongly feel that all regions that so wish should be represented. The practice that has been prevailing in this Organization over gentlemen's agreements has proved to be unreliable and has not safeguarded the principle and the need for just and equitable representation of various regions, not only in the Programme Committee and Finance Committee but also in other Committees in FAO and other UN Organs.
The compromise as given in the draft resolution in document C 87/LIM/8 is not acceptable to my delegation for the same reason given by the distinguished delegate of Italy. My delegation, Mr Chairman, is urging FAO to find a better way of solving this problem so that the incident which happened two years ago will not repeat itself.
We should not fear to make changes, be it in the Basic Texts or otherwise, if we are to move in the right direction. We suggest that a better resolution or a better solution be found by this Conference. I think that Egypt has a very good idea, that we should utterly balance the numbers of representation in the Programme and Finance Committees between the developing and developed countries. I might add, that it is likely, from what I heard from the distinguished delegate of Italy, that he might have a better solution and maybe we can discuss that one and see how far we can go.
Ronald DEARE (United Kingdom): I have listened with great interest to the proposal made by the distinguished delegate of Italy this afternoon, and with particular interest because my delegation basically shares the same view as that just expressed by the distinguished delegate of Zambia. But I submit that until we have seen the text and what it is that the Ambassador of Italy is proposing,
and we have had time to study and reflect on it, I think it is premature to engage in a discussion this afternoon. He has, in effect, introduced us to what is known across the other side of the Atlantic as "a whole new ball game," and I really do think that you should call time out so that we have an opportunity to read what it is that is proposed and come back to it fully prepared for a discussion on this item.
German CARRASCO DOMINGUEZ (Chile): Yo también quiero unirme a las felicitaciones que le han sido otorgadas por su merecido nombramiento en esta importante Comisión.
El documento que, con mucha habilidad y eficiencia nos presenta la Secretaría, el C 87/LIM/8, en realidad tiene una solución de compromiso muy hábil para el problema que había ocurrido en cuanto a la representación en los distintos comités. Por algunas razones - por razones que yo ignoro, porque no he formado parte de este Comité -, no sé por qué no se han atrevido a modificar los artículos correspondientes de los textos fundamentales, para obtener justamente lo que ahora se nos presenta como una solución expeditiva, de compromiso, que es este proyecto de resolución que se presentaría a la Conferencia, en el cual se afirma la necesidad de una representación justa y equitativa de las diversas regiones y se dice que éste es un elemento esencial para esta región. Se pide también que en el Consejo se tenga presente la importancia de garantizar una rotación equitativa entre los países que constituyen cada región.
Señor Presidente, estos principios que aquí aparecen enunciados son principios generales del sistema de Naciones Unidas. Mi país, en todo momento, ha defendido con gran energía en todos los órganos de Naciones Unidas el hecho de que exista una equitativa distribución y representación geográfica en los cargos electivos de todos los organismos, órganos, comisiones del sistema general de Naciones Unidas. Por esas razones, señor Presidente, mi país está, desde luego, en completo acuerdo con este proyecto de resolución. Pero a mí también, señor Presidente, me asaltan muchas dudas en cuanto a la obligatoriedad, en cuanto a la fuerza de compromiso que va a tener este proyecto de resolución entre todos los miembros de la Organización. ¿Hasta qué punto, señor Presidente, esto va a ser siempre respetado? ¿No podrán surgir en algún momento circunstancias que nosotros desconocemos y que hagan que estos elementos que aquí aparecen como esenciales sean en un momento dejados de lado?
Por eso yo he escuchado con mucha atención e interés la solución que propone el distinguido representante de Italia. Naturalmente que yo, al igual que el distinguido representante del Reino Unido, no creo que estemos en condiciones de entrar en un debate "in profundi" sobre esta materia sin conocer antes el texto del proyecto de resolución que el distinguido representante de Italia nos ha ofrecido.
Y. HEIDSMA (Netherlands): While my delegation had no particular problem with the draft resolution before us in document C 87/LIM/8, since we trust that the Council will indeed bear in mind the terms of the draft resolution when it elects the Finance and Programme Committees, nevertheless the intervention of our Italian colleague has shed some new light on the problem. It is my understanding that the Italian delegation may have found a solution which will be even more precise. We are certainly curious to see what this text will be, and until we have seen it I think we would prefer not to take a decision on this draft resolution because this text may become superfluous since the Italian text may be better.
Therefore, we would like to wait until we have seen the Italian text, as many others before us have already indicated.
CHAIRMAN: At this moment, having listened to several remarks on this matter, I propose to postpone this particular issue until further consultations have taken place and until delegates can be better acquainted with the whole text, and the spirit of it. I hope the Italian delegation does not mind? Thank you.
Mohd. Mazlan JUSOH (Malaysia): My delegation wishes to congratulate you, Mr Chairman, on your election to the Chair. We also congratulate Mr Komiti on his election as Vice-Chairman. I wish also to thank the Commission for supporting my own appointment to the post of the other Vice-Chairman.
This question of procedure for the election of chairmen and members of the Programme and Finance Committees has been debated rather lengthily in Council since the 89th Session in November 1985. Although we feel that the problem lies mainly in the failure of coordination between two regions, we are happy with the compromise which at this stage has been arrived at. Therefore, we are pleased to support the draft resolution presented to us in document C 87/LIM/8.
However, after listening carefully to the intervention of the distinguished delegate of Italy, we will study the proposed resolution and may change our position if we find it to be a better solution than the one before us.
Srta. Margarita LIZARRAGA SAUCEDO (Mexico): Nuestra delegación, como miembro del Consejo, ha seguido con mucha atención los debates sobre este tema en las diferentes instancias porque es un tema que se ha analizado ya desde la Conferencia pasada y el Comité de Asuntos Constitucionales y Jurídicos lo ha revisado y lo ha regresado al Consejo con nuevas luces.
En ese sentido, y con toda la cortesía que merece nuestro querido embajador Pascarelli, de Italia, con tantas contribuciones como ha hecho a la FAO, nos hemos sentido un poco preocupados porque nuestros Gobiernos han tenido oportunidad de analizar el documento tal y como nos había sido presentado, y en este caso incluye un proyecto de resolución que nuestros Gobiernos han considerado pertinente y el cual estamos preparados a apoyar totalmente. Por eso, la expresión de preocupación. Porque si esto ha seguido todo un proceso y nos llega ya a la Conferencia con un proyecto ya analizado, una nueva resolución nos va a causar bastantes problemas a muchas delegaciones que no hemos tenido tiempo de consultar a nuestros Gobiernos y no es tan fácil hacerlo.
En ese sentido, justamente esta resolución está perfectamente explicada en el documento introductorio. Tiene un carácter de proposición, de llamamiento y pide que se ponga en práctica durante un período, y que si esto no funcionase, entonces podríamos solicitar un replanteamiento. Me parece que entonces no deberíamos de violentar la situación, tratar de llevarla tal y como está y ver que si esto no funciona, creo que tendrá una gran prioridad ya la idea que tendremos nosotros en mano con esta nueva proposición que nos está haciendo el embajador Pascarelli, y sería una solución que ya podríamos ver desde ahora.
Por el momento lamentamos no poder pronunciarnos favorablemente porque las instrucciones de nuestros Gobiernos están ya enfocadas hacia una cuestión que se ha venido debatiendo, regresando, a través del Consejo, de las instancias que culminan con esta Conferencia.
Sra. Virginia ESPINOSA DE CARRION (Nicaragua): Primero queríamos felicitarle por su elección. Luego nosotros queremos decir más o menos lo ya expresado por la delegada de México en cuanto a que nosotros apoyamos el proyecto de resolución aquí presentado, pero como ha señalado México, nuestros Gobiernos han estudiado esta resolución y la han aprobado. Es incómodo ahora para nosotros pronunciarnos ante otra resolución, ya que necesitará ser revisada por mi Gobierno, y esto nos atrasará, puesto que ya veníamos preparados para apoyar sin reservas el proyecto de resolución.
Manuel DE GUZMAN PEREZ (Ecuador): En primer lugar mi delegación quiere unirse a las felicitaciones que mis antecesores han hecho en cuanto a la elección suya como Presidente de esta Comisión y la de los dos señores Vicepresidentes.
Sobre el punto que es tema de discusión en el actual momento, mi país opina que aquello que en Derecho no está prohibido está permitido.
El proyecto de resolución está dando una norma que deja libre albedrío y una especie de compromiso de equidad en la presentación. Por lo mismo, mi país opina que la norma debe ser absolutamente clara y que debe, buscando el principio de la equidad, dejar sumamente determinada la forma de la elección. En tal sentido, el país, Ecuador, apoya la tesis presentada por Zambia y luego aclarada por el Reino Unido, en el sentido de proponer que se someta a esta Comisión, a su estudio, el proyecto presentado por Italia, que, como se nos ha dicho, sólo tiene un carácter oficioso, no oficializado, de tal manera que yo solicitaría, si es que así la mayoría lo decide, que el proyecto presentado • por Italia sea oficializado y puesto a consideración de las delegaciones presentes para su respectivo estudio
Francisco MORA (Costa Rica): En primer lugar, la delegación de Costa Rica quiere felicitar a usted y a sus Vice Presidentes por su elección.
En segundo lugar, en relación con el asunto en discusión, inscrito en el documento C 87/LIM/8, Costa Rica quiere decir lo siguiente:
Nos parece que del examen hecho a este asunto, la propuesta contenida en este documento nos da la impresión de que deja persistir el problema de fondo que ha suscitado durante mucho tiempo la discusión de este asunto en el Comité de Asuntos Constitucionales y Jurídicos, en el Consejo, y en la Conferencia. En este sentido, coincidimos plenamente con el estimable delegado de Ecuador, al mencionar que se debe buscar la forma en que los artículos 26 y 27 establezcan claramente el deseo de la Conferencia de que cada región esté representada en el Comité del Programa y en el Comité de Finanzas.
No conocemos el texto de la propuesta del Gobierno italiano; sin embargo, por lo que hemos escuchado al estimado delegado de Ecuador, estamos pensando en similares términos, y el Gobierno de Costa Rica se ha permitido elaborar una propuesta justamente persiguiendo el propósito de definir de una vez por todas este asunto, en el sentido de que se garantice por la ley, en este caso por el reglamento, vía los mencionados artículos XXVI y XXVII, que cada una de las regiones tenga por lo menos un representante en estos Comités.
Muchas gracias, Sr. Presidente, y haremos llegar nuestra propuesta de resolución a la Secretaría.
Igor KIPMAN (Brazil): Mr Chairman, I am pleased to convey the congratulations of my delegation: to you and the other members of the Bureau on your election.
I also welcome the efforts undertaken by Ambassador Pascarelli to try to avoid a repetition of the so-called unfair representation of the regions. However, this matter has been discussed at length during the last three meetings of the Council and the position of my delegation has been clearly put forward more than once. We are strong supporters of reaching a just and equitable representation of the various regions through improved negotiations and understanding between the regions, and particularly within them.
The resolution before us undoubtedly gives a margin to the repetition of the issue as Mr Pascarelli so wisely explained.
It is, however, a formula of compromise as mentioned in the document, and in the report of the Ninety-Second Session of the Council. That is as far as we can go along with. We will give careful consideration to the project of the resolution mentioned by the distinguished Ambassador, Pascarelli, and on this point I certainly agree with the representative of the United Kingdom that we have to read the proposition before discussing the issue. I anticipate that my delegation will have grave difficulties in endorsing any resolution that would lead to modifications in the rules of the Organization vis-à-vis the issue under discussion.
Bernard LEDUN:(France): La delegation française s'associe bien volontiers, Monsieur le Président, aux félicitations qui vous ont été adressées par les orateurs précédents pour votre élection à la présidence de cette Commission.
Nous avons un proverbe dans notre pays, mais je pense que ce proverbe a une valeur universelle, qui dit: "le mieux est l’ ennemi du bien."
Le CQCJ a tenté d'approcher une solution médiane qui puisse satisfaire tout le monde, tâche bien difficile admettons-le, même si la solution retenue n'est pas parfaite. Mais pouvait-il en être autrement, à moins d'envisager, ce qui est toujours possible, une procédure plus lourde et plus contraignante de modification des textes de base régissant la composition et le mode de désignation des comités techniques de l'Organisation.
La délégation française, pour sa part, ne peut qu'appuyer effet, pour peu bien-sûr que les Pays membres jouent le jeu dont les règles sont définies et rappelées par le CQCJ, une adéquate représentation des régions et une rotation équitable des pays à l'intérieur de ces régions. Dans ces conditions, nous estimons que le projet de résolution qui nous est présenté correspond bien à ce dessein.
Toutefois, si certains pays, aal'instar de l'Italie, estiment qu'un meilleur texte, et surtout un meilleur dispositif, peut nous être présenté, suspendons provisoirement notre décision sur ce point, en attendant d'etre plus amplement informés des améliorations éventuelles qui pourraient lui être apportées.
A. Daniel WEYGANDT (United States of America): Allow me to join the other delegations who have congratulated you, Mr Chairman, on your election; and congratulations as well to the Vice-Chairmen.
I simply want to take the floor at this time to second the proposal that you made half an hour ago, Mr Chairman, to postpone consideration of this issue until we have the text to see what the distinguished representative of Italy has proposed. I really do not think that we can have a profitable discussion until we have seen that text, and I would, therefore, like to support you and your ruling that we should postpone further consideration of this question until we have had a chance to look at the text.
CHAIRMAN: I have no more speakers on my list. We have listened to different opinions and being the democratically elected Chairman I was listening with great attention without making a judgement on any position. Therefore, I will again ask if any delegates wish to speak on Item 22.1? I see no speakers and I therefore presume that you are agreeable to postponing a decision on this particular item on the understanding that we shall return at tomorrow morning's session to the matters discussed in relation to the statement made by the distinguished delegate of Italy.
Alfred AMISI (Kenya): Mr Chairman, I need not waste your time by saying that I agree with your ruling, except to say that we need to have the Italian version of the resolution circulated to us so that we can study it overnight in readiness for tomorrow's meeting.
If I remember correctly, another distinguished delegate has also proposed a resolution which he was going to put before you. I think it was the distinguished delegate of Costa Rica. Perhaps it would be a good idea also to have the two resolutions so that we can read the three of them now and come here tomorrow in readiness to discuss the issue.
Elio PASCARELLI (Italy): I wish to make very clear, if it was not sufficiently clear before, that this is not the "Italian" draft resolution. It is a proposal which can become a draft resolution if we find other sponsors. We do not wish to be the only ones.
CHAIRMAN: That is a very important clarification. Thank you for that. The statement made by the distinguished delegate of Kenya is a reasonable one. If delegations have no documents to consider, then obviously they cannot discuss them tomorrow morning.
Thank you for assisting me in clarifying this matter. 1 clarify it in the following way. If there is a need, based on the documents proposed, then we shall return to this particular issue when the document is ready. That is my understanding. However, it depends on whether there is a document because the Ambassador from Italy has reiterated that there will be no draft resolution without other sponsors.
Dr Mifsud, who is a great expert on these matters, reminds me that any draft resolution has first to go to the Resolutions Committee. Therefore, we are unable to decide when exactly we can return to a discussion of this matter.
Likunde LI-BOTAYI (Zaïre): Je voudrais abonder dans le sens des propos que vous venez de tenir, Monsieur le Président. Quand il s'agit d'un projet de résolution, ce projet doit passer par le Comité des résolutions.
CHAIRMAN: If I understand correctly, there is consensus to adjourn this particular point and to come back to it when it is ready. I see no objections, and so that is how we shall proceed.
Sra. María Eulalia JIMENEZ (El Salvador): Quisiera saber mi Delegación si podemos conocer cuándo vamos a discutir nuevamente la cuestión relativa al documento C 87/LIM/8, o sea,el procedimiento para la elección de los Presidentes y miembros del Comité del Programa y del Comité de Finanzas. Específicamente, cuándo discutiríamos la posible resolución que presentaría Italia y la resolución que ha sido presentada por el Comité de Asuntos Constitucionales y Jurídicos al Consejo y que el Consejo ha remitido a la Conferencia.
CHAIRMAN: I am sorry, but at this moment I am not in a position to give you a precise answer. As soon as we know, we will communicate when it will be possible to discuss this matter. I realize that perhaps you are not fully satisfied with my reply - but at this moment we do not know.
22.2. Immunity of the Organization from Legal Process
22.2. Immunité de juridiction de l'Organisation
22.2. Inmunidad de procedimiento judicial de la Organización
LEGAL COUNSEL: The relevant document submitted for the Commission's discussion is C 87/LIM/10. This document is an extract from the Report of the Ninety-first Session of the Council held last June. The question of FAO's immunity from legal process in Italy has been under discussion by the Council, as well as the Conference, since 1982. I hesitate to take up the time of the Commission by reviewing all the events that have taken place since the Corte di Cassazione rendered a judgement in which the Organization's immunity from all forms of legal process, provided for in Section 16 of the Headquarters Agreement, was not recognized.
The document before you brings the Conference up to date on the events that have occurred since its Twenty-third Session in 1985. At the latter Session, the Conference decided that it was not desirable at that stage to request an advisory opinion on the interpretation of the Headquarters Agreement from the International Court of Justice. Instead, the Conference invited the Director-General and the Italian authorities to explore all possible means of arriving rapidly at a definite solution which would ensure that FAO would enjoy immunity from all forms of legal process in Italy.
You will note from Document C 87/LIM/10 that constructive discussions were held between the Director-General and the Italian authorities. As the Italian Government considered that the promulgation of new legislation would encounter a number of difficulties and would not necessarily ensure that FAO's immunity would be upheld by the Italian courts, a practical solution was reached in correspondence between the parties. This correspondence has since been published in the Italian Official Gazette.
The solution which has been reached was considered by the CCLM and the Council. The description of the solution - which is, perhaps, from a legal point of view, somewhat technical - is contained in paragraphs 297-299 of the extract from the Council's report. I will not, as I said, describe this again because it is somewhat detailed. I hope that most of the delegates who have been following this matter have actually studied it and given thought to it.
The important point to note is that both the CCLM and the Council considered that although the solution was not ideal, it was nevertheless a practical approach to the problem of securing the Organization's immunity from legal process in Italy. It is hoped that the correspondence published in the Official Gazette will result in the Italian courts upholding FAO's immunity from all forms of legal process in the future should the occasion arise; - needless to add that I hope the occasion will not arise, but it always could do.
Therefore, the Conference may wish to endorse the conclusions of the CCLM and the Council which would, if it did so endorse them, render an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice unnecessary. Naturally , should any untoward developments take place, notwithstanding the solution that has been found, the Director-General would report this to the Council for whatever action the latter might consider appropriate.
Finally, I would like to draw the Commission's attention to the fact that the CCLM and the Council reached another conclusion relating to this matter. The Council had previously adopted a policy whereby FAO, if it were sued in Italy, would refrain from putting in an appearance in the Italian courts, even for the sole purpose of pleading its immunity. However, in the light of the developments that have been described in the extract from the Council's report which you have before you, the Council considered that it would be appropriate for the Director-General to put in an appearance in court exclusively to plead FAO's immunity from legal process.
In this way, the solution that has been reached with the Italian Government would be given every chance of proving its efficacy. The Conference may also wish to endorse this slightly modified policy.
That, I think, is all I need say at this stage. Should there be any questions, I shall endeavour to reply to them.
Elio PASCARELLI (Italy): It is rewarding for an old ambassador who retired a month ago to be able to state here that I am not sitting on the Bench, but with my other colleagues, not among the accused but amongst those who have prospered and, thanks also to the Organization, who have maintained the engagement to find a practical, amicable and - what shall I say - I would say "positive" solution as well. I very much thank Mr Roche and his services for the cooperation they have given us during these negotiations. I cannot tell you how many hours they lasted, because they were not many - the spirit of understanding was there from very early on and the negotiations were satisfactory to both parties. So serenity has been restored in the sky of FAO and the Caracalla trees.
I want to assure Mr Roche - and Mr Crowther too - that this hope which was expressed in paragraph 301, and I quote from the third line of the English text: "and hoped that the Host Government would not discard the possibility of ultimately taking legislative measures that would give further legal protection to FAO", was not ignored by the representation, and will not be ignored - we do not discard it at all. We will find the opportune moment when we have to knock at Parliament - and also, men change, and opinions change. We will certainly pursue that at the right moment, so as to prevent even the remote possibility of disturbing the peace of FAO.
On the same subject, I must add that we welcome the decision of the Council, and we hope that countries will endorse, that our advice - friendly advice, as Host Country for thirty-six years -be not ignored; and I see here the statement that every delegate should read, which Mr Roche has just proposed the Council endorse, that the Council change its policy and does not refuse to stand before the court only to plead immunity. We have an Italian proverb - "gli assenti hanno sempre torto". (The absentees are always wrong!)
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, and I wish to thank the Ambassador of Italy not only as a representative of FAO but also as representative of the Host Country.
Srta. Margarita LIZARRAGA SAUCEDO (México): En los varios años que llevo como parte de la Delegación mexicana, recuerdo que cuando llegábamos, en el Consejo o en la Conferencia, a tocar este tema, era motivo de serias preocupaciones. Por eso, en esta ocasión, queremos decir cuánto gusto nos da que la situación haya cambiado radicalmente y que debamos felicitarnos de que, finalmente, hayamos llegado a entendimientos muy válidos y que nosotros consideramos satisfactorios. No dejaremos de tomar en consideración los comentarios del Embajador Pascarelli, a quien va todo nuestro reconocimiento, porque realmente ha sido él el arquitecto que ha movido el tema, en este período corto en que hemos tenido la fortuna de que esté con nosotros, pero que ha dado todo un dinamismo a la participación del país hospedante, a quien estamos tan reconocidos.
Quisiera nuestra Delegación que la mención que en el Consejo hicimos a esta participación tan importante la recoja la Conferencia y realmente se le dé justicia a quien así lo merece. Muchas gracias, Embajador Pascarelli. Esperamos que Ud. seguirá apoyando a la Organización por un buen rato, no obstante que tenga un retiro, oficioso casi, porque va a seguir con nosotros.
CHAIRMAN: Before adjourning our meeting, I would like to express my thanks to the delegates who have congratulated me on my election and also to convey the thanks of the Vice-Chairmen to those who congratulated them on their election.
The meeting rose at 16.45 hours
La seance est levée à 16 h 45
Se levanta la sesión a las 16.45 horas
